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Do we fold TT here? Do we fold TT here?

09-10-2018 , 08:08 AM
Is this a reshove or fold, in my mind 99 would be a fold TT borderline but a call.
what are your opinions?

35 left in the mtt.

    Poker Stars, $6.69 Buy-in (2,000/4,000 blinds, 500 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37936630

    MP1: 90,829 (22.7 bb)
    MP2: 81,297 (20.3 bb)
    MP3: 93,003 (23.3 bb)
    CO: 86,798 (21.7 bb)
    BTN: 205,832 (51.5 bb)
    SB: 116,726 (29.2 bb)
    BB: 66,978 (16.7 bb)
    Hero (UTG+2): 104,198 (26 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T T
    Hero raises to 9,000, 3 folds, CO calls 9,000, 2 folds, BB raises to 66,478 and is all-in, Hero raises to 103,698 and is all-in, CO folds

    Flop: (147,956) 9 4 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    Turn: (147,956) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (147,956) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)




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    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-10-2018 , 08:45 AM
    depends a lot. any stats? table edge? for me its a sigh fold as my opening range utg even 8 handed is pretty tight. BB has good pot odds to call with the lower pairs you dominate yeah maybe not from a rule of thumb set mining, but his closing the action and is getting a discount. so your calling to flip. or hope he has a10s 88 99. but his range over all 10 10 is a bit meh. If his laggy I will sigh shove

    are we ok with a subsidised flip if we think this is a likely scenario. What are the icm implications? You say 35 left is that ITM? do we have a soft table? how tight is the biggest stack at table. Is going to be a healthy 2nd stack going to increase stack utility namely allow any bubble pawnage? if in the money 35 left is to soon to consider final table bubble pawnage so yeah again leaning towards fold.

    all assuming co stats don't make him calling a utg open with a circa 20bb stack suspicious.

    If your laggy and so is BB then I can see this being a shove.

    all just my opinion and I play on 888 with smaller field sizes.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-10-2018 , 09:17 AM
    Same questions apply as above but generally I'd be opening something like the following from that position:

    77+
    AT+
    KJs+
    KQo+
    Maybe a few spanners like higher suited connectors/ smaller pairs depending on the table/ gameflow

    That range accounts for about 10%

    When raising that there are a lot of hands that I am ready to GII with against the right opponents. I'm going to be tighter against the CL and EP but against later positioned raisers and particularly an OOP squeeze like this I'm folding something like AJ-, 88-, KQ- and calling with the rest (i.e. AQ+, 99+). That would mean continuing with about 60% of the hands that we opened, which feels about right for that spot. I wouldn't want to be raise folding too much more given that there are so many shove stacks behind us and we should expect it to happen so often

    I'd expect BB to be shoving a range similar to what we opened to begin with, maybe with just a few more small pairs, and our calling range against that range will be about 55%. I think we can largely ignore the CO most of the time as I'd expect him to be folding the vast majority of the time having only called initially (he'll occasionally be trapping with a monster but most of the time he goes away, and probably just as often makes a terrible call with 99 or worse), so with his dead money the pot would be 148k after we call the 57k, so for cEV we need 38.5% equity

    With the calling range I'm suggesting I'm very confident we would get this - as even a tighter BB range of TT+, AQ+ gives us 40% equity and I really think a lot of players are shoving wider than that

    So generally I'll call with TT or 99 here and my cutoff is around AQ and 99 and if the answers to the questions from URagnatha mean we need to be tighter then I will be, and would probably be opening less anyway (but *always" opening TT in all but the worst ICM situations)
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-10-2018 , 10:53 AM
    Pretty sure you've just got to roll with the tens here. Sometimes CO traps but you're ahead of his range and BB can find shoves with a lot of stuff. This feels like a good spot to accumulate some chips and make a run at winning this bird.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-10-2018 , 01:13 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by underdeveloped
    Pretty sure you've just got to roll with the tens here. Sometimes CO traps but you're ahead of his range and BB can find shoves with a lot of stuff. This feels like a good spot to accumulate some chips and make a run at winning this bird.
    Exactly. So, as played ....
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-10-2018 , 01:19 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Primrose6789
    Exactly. So, as played ....
    yes
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-11-2018 , 02:10 AM
    Yea id be calling off here, as per the reasons mentioned above but with less than 20bb bb doesn't have to be nutted and can show up with lower pairs some of the time like 66-99. We are only really worried about 24 hand combinations.

    Now the real question is what would you do if you held 99 instead?
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-11-2018 , 03:03 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wowsooooted
    Yea id be calling off here, as per the reasons mentioned above but with less than 20bb bb doesn't have to be nutted and can show up with lower pairs some of the time like 66-99. We are only really worried about 24 hand combinations.

    Now the real question is what would you do if you held 99 instead?
    Still think we're going to rumble in the jungle with the nine balls. I think the real question is what to do with snowmen in this spot.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-11-2018 , 06:07 AM
    TT never folding here.
    99 is closer but still a call.
    88 is borderline and it's close. I still think I'd call 88 if the table is competent. If the table is full of fish and there are better chances to get the moniez I'd fold.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-11-2018 , 10:50 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by URagnatha
    depends a lot. any stats? table edge? for me its a sigh fold as my opening range utg even 8 handed is pretty tight. BB has good pot odds to call with the lower pairs you dominate yeah maybe not from a rule of thumb set mining, but his closing the action and is getting a discount. so your calling to flip. or hope he has a10s 88 99. but his range over all 10 10 is a bit meh. If his laggy I will sigh shove

    are we ok with a subsidised flip if we think this is a likely scenario. What are the icm implications? You say 35 left is that ITM? do we have a soft table? how tight is the biggest stack at table. Is going to be a healthy 2nd stack going to increase stack utility namely allow any bubble pawnage? if in the money 35 left is to soon to consider final table bubble pawnage so yeah again leaning towards fold.

    all assuming co stats don't make him calling a utg open with a circa 20bb stack suspicious.

    If your laggy and so is BB then I can see this being a shove.

    all just my opinion and I play on 888 with smaller field sizes.
    Nah 16bbs never folding TT here. The range you “hope” villain has here seems quite tight.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-11-2018 , 02:14 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExpectedV
    Nah 16bbs never folding TT here. The range you “hope” villain has here seems quite tight.
    my tight fold is a function of my tight opening ranges from utg 8 handed. What is your open/fold range here.

    id be opening 88+ A10s (depending) AJo+ KQs KQo (depending)

    I may not even open 88+ A10s here if table has been very active/laggy

    I also don't add any balancing spew stuff like suited connectors at this narrow a depth

    perhaps its my opening ranges that are to tight?
    Do we fold TT here? Quote
    09-12-2018 , 05:14 AM
    very easy call, a lot of dead money on the table.
    Do we fold TT here? Quote

          
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