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C/r with second pair C/r with second pair
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06-22-2018 , 05:26 PM
#1
Chief_h
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centurion
Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 180
Awkward stack sizes so not sure what's the best line to take.

    Party, $2 Buy-in (40,000/80,000 blinds, 10,000 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 1,577,858 (19.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 4,872,605 (60.9 bb)
    UTG+2: 3,226,694 (40.3 bb)
    MP1: 462,181 (5.8 bb)
    MP2: 1,809,412 (22.6 bb)
    MP3: 2,185,142 (27.3 bb)
    CO: 323,059 (4 bb)
    BTN: 1,773,063 (22.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 7
    2 folds, MP2 raises to 160,000, 4 folds, Hero calls 80,000

    Flop: (440,000) 8 2 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP2 bets 440,000, Hero raises to 4,702,605 and is all-in, MP2 calls 1,199,412 and is all-in

    Turn: (3,718,824) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (3,718,824) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 3,718,824 pot
    Final Board: 8 2 5 4 4
    Hero showed 5 7 and lost (-1,809,412 net)
    MP2 showed 8 J and won 3,718,824 (1,909,412 net)


    Considering that he CB pot my c/r is probably not a good idea. What if villain CB smaller?
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-23-2018 , 12:06 AM
    #2
    gamboneee's Avatar
    gamboneee
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    Carpal \'Tunnel
    Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,163
    fold pre prob just fold flop vs pot, definitely not jamming
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-24-2018 , 03:07 PM
    #3
    JMX
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    old hand
    Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,720
    I'm folding preflop here, even though it is tempting to play 57s out of the BB facing a min-raise. ~22BB effective is not justifiable to be playing hands like these, IMO. I prefer to be the aggressor when I have the chiplead.
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-24-2018 , 06:28 PM
    #4
    Darth_Maul
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    Pooh-Bah
    Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435
    Yes fold pre because you don't have the implied odds to defend with this hand given villain's stack size. This is a fantastic hand to defend with deeper stacks; if you're going to defend 22bb effective, you want good low SPR hands (something that can hit top pair).
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-24-2018 , 09:40 PM
    #5
    Whia
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    centurion
    Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 123
    Easy defend pre. People don't often pot on these boards unless they have something so I'd just fold here. We have no backdoors and lots of bad turn cards so folding is often just a better option here but I'd consider this villain dependent and would not hate a call sometimes.
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-25-2018 , 07:17 AM
    #6
    cizixap's Avatar
    cizixap
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    adept
    Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,027
    include stat in the hand history.
    consider 3-bet bluff pre! I think 75s is quite a good hand to mix it into your 3-bet range. Even if V called you can check-fold if the flop is not good for you or check-raise or even donk under some circumstances. In this specific hand I think MP would easily fold after 3-bet with his hand and stack.
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-25-2018 , 08:44 AM
    #7
    Darth_Maul
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    Pooh-Bah
    Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cizixap
    include stat in the hand history.
    consider 3-bet bluff pre! I think 75s is quite a good hand to mix it into your 3-bet range. Even if V called you can check-fold if the flop is not good for you or check-raise or even donk under some circumstances. In this specific hand I think MP would easily fold after 3-bet with his hand and stack.
    You don't know what his hand is when you act. The problem with a 3b here is villain's stack size is perfect for a 4b-shove.

    With deeper stacks there are lots of options with a hand like this but with 22bb effective 75s becomes almost worthless.
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-25-2018 , 08:56 AM
    #8
    cizixap's Avatar
    cizixap
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    adept
    Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,027
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
    You don't know what his hand is when you act. The problem with a 3b here is villain's stack size is perfect for a 4b-shove.

    With deeper stacks there are lots of options with a hand like this but with 22bb effective 75s becomes almost worthless.
    I don't know for sure, and indeed the stat would be super-helpful here. 3bet versus nit would be terrible idea, but perhaps vs high AF VPIP/PFR that would be OK. If a guy opened J8s, his opening range is too wide and you can detect in in HUD.
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-25-2018 , 12:49 PM
    #9
    Captain-Hindsight's Avatar
    Captain-Hindsight
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    adept
    Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114
    defending is fine IMO. Just fold flop tho that PSB doesn't say scared
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-26-2018 , 08:39 AM
    #10
    gamboneee's Avatar
    gamboneee
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    Carpal \'Tunnel
    Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,163
    defending vs a 22bb ep raise is thin enough on its own, if you need to ask a question when you actually flop decently, just fold
    C/r with second pair Quote
    06-26-2018 , 01:28 PM
    #11
    Chief_h
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    centurion
    Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 180
    Thanks for all the input, several different opinions about the hand so it is a tricky situation. Definitely some material to consider here. Cheers!
    C/r with second pair Quote
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