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A c/r with back door equity A c/r with back door equity

07-03-2020 , 05:11 AM
Hi! So I recently decided to explore this line since this board hits my range so much better than V range I was wondering if this is a little too spewy or if it's okay?

Scenario:
45 man S&G, 7 is ITM, 13 left if I remember correctly.

PokerStars, $0.23 + $0.02 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: 3,441 (29 bb)
MP: 4,265 (36 bb)
CO: 2,908 (24 bb)
BU: 8,401 (70 bb)
SB: 1,746 (15 bb)
BB (Hero): 4,079 (34 bb)

Pre-Flop: (270) Hero is BB with 7 J
2 players fold, CO raises to 240, 2 players fold, Hero calls 120

Flop: (630) 3 3 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 227, Hero raises to 720, CO calls 493

Turn: (2,070) A (2 players)
Hero bets 3,104 (all-in)
A c/r with back door equity Quote
07-03-2020 , 11:39 AM
I don't think this hits your range very well - yes you have more 3x but not very many and would you really raise them? Then the turn his V's range very nicely
Also sizing of raise is a bit small imo
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07-03-2020 , 11:54 AM
Yes to be honest I don't think it is a very good candidate to do this with. I think a hand like Axs performs much better since we block more hands of his continuing range. (given he calls with some of his overcards).

Interesting what you say about sizing though, what size would you go with OTF?
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07-03-2020 , 12:00 PM
i would go about 2/3 pot so something like 900
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07-03-2020 , 12:45 PM
Preflop - you have a standard defense.

Flop - I actually really like your play. You can have all the trips and boats, which is good for your range. Your hand selection is great because you have no showdown value and two backdoors and J high. If you get jammed on the flop, you have a very easy fold. Your sizing on the flop is good as you nice prepare for a turn jam.

Turn - you picked up more equity and shoving seems reasonable when you have less than a pot size bet.

Overall, nice hand!
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07-03-2020 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat
I don't think this hits your range very well - yes you have more 3x but not very many and would you really raise them? Then the turn his V's range very nicely
Also sizing of raise is a bit small imo
Agree with this. Paired flops are terrible for x/r bluffing because it significantly narrows your range of hands that hit, and the ones that hit big you wouldn't x/r. Plus, many opponents realize a paired board isn't as scary and won't believe your bluff. Then bluffing the Ace turn is suicide because villain's range contains a lot of Ax.
A c/r with back door equity Quote
07-03-2020 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 000Puh4u
Preflop - you have a standard defense.

Flop - I actually really like your play. You can have all the trips and boats, which is good for your range. Your hand selection is great because you have no showdown value and two backdoors and J high. If you get jammed on the flop, you have a very easy fold. Your sizing on the flop is good as you nice prepare for a turn jam.

Turn - you picked up more equity and shoving seems reasonable when you have less than a pot size bet.

Overall, nice hand!
Thank you, but I think it plays better as a call (most of the time). Because if we are going to take this line with this hand we have too many combo's we will do this with, as compared to our value hands. Of course if we think villian is a nit we can add a lot more of these combo's in our c/r range. Though I will agree with you that I like the sizing that I chose given villian's stack size. If villian covered us I think 900 is a better sizing to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
Agree with this. Paired flops are terrible for x/r bluffing because it significantly narrows your range of hands that hit, and the ones that hit big you wouldn't x/r. Plus, many opponents realize a paired board isn't as scary and won't believe your bluff. Then bluffing the Ace turn is suicide because villain's range contains a lot of Ax.
Doesn't become check-raising with our good hands super profitable if our opponents think a c/r on a paired board isn't that scary? So if that's the case then why would we not want to c/r hands like A3 here?
I agree with you that the turn shove would have been a lot better on the 2s since the As is way better for his range. I'm just a little confused about your statement OTF.
A c/r with back door equity Quote
07-03-2020 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Nacho Friend
Doesn't become check-raising with our good hands super profitable if our opponents think a c/r on a paired board isn't that scary? So if that's the case then why would we not want to c/r hands like A3 here?
I agree with you that the turn shove would have been a lot better on the 2s since the As is way better for his range. I'm just a little confused about your statement OTF.
You're right, it's just that most people don't x/r their trips and boats on flops like this. But the bigger problem is that a paired board significantly reduces the combos of value hands you can have and most opponents will realize that.

Think of how different it is on a flop like 6h4s3h. On a flop like that you can have infinitely more combos of hands in your x/r range because of all the draws you could have. A x/r on a flop like that is much more frightening to an opponent than on the 633r flop.
A c/r with back door equity Quote
07-04-2020 , 07:11 AM
Ah I think I get it. Do you mean that it's much scarier to continue on the wet board because there is more scary turn cards for them?

And also on the wet board we have more value combo's, which means we can balance our range with more bluffs?
A c/r with back door equity Quote
07-04-2020 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Nacho Friend
Ah I think I get it. Do you mean that it's much scarier to continue on the wet board because there is more scary turn cards for them?

And also on the wet board we have more value combo's, which means we can balance our range with more bluffs?
Exactly. Not only do they have to worry about good hands you have on the flop, but they also have to worry about scary turn cards. That isn't the case with paired flops.

Defending your big blind and x/r low coordinated flops is a very powerful play.
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07-04-2020 , 08:55 AM
Alrigt thanks for the help and the explanation! Also how do you react to his bet OTF? Do you float?
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07-04-2020 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Nacho Friend
Alrigt thanks for the help and the explanation! Also how do you react to his bet OTF? Do you float?
Yes, with 2 overs and a backdoor FD facing a small bet I would just x/c.
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07-04-2020 , 09:55 PM
C/r more on the flop so your turn jam can be pot size or not so much bigger than pot.
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07-05-2020 , 05:33 AM
But it's approximately pot-sized since we cover villian.
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07-05-2020 , 07:17 PM
This is what I get for reading too fast for the 254887th time in my career.
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07-06-2020 , 03:31 AM
I'll just bet villian's remaining stack next time
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