Hey, I wondered if I should be Cbetting flop and turn here. Perhaps even c-r turn?

Villain stats after 17 hands are VP 47/PR 24/3B 20/CB 100/FCB 67

What do you think?

PartyGaming - 400/800 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 126.59 BB
SB: 119.5 BB
Hero (BB): 156.65 BB
UTG: 3.18 BB
UTG+1: 237.25 BB
MP: 102.82 BB
MP+1: 136.67 BB
CO: 117.35 BB

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, BTN calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 3 T T
Hero bets 8 BB, BTN calls 8 BB

Turn: (38.5 BB, 2 players) K
Hero checks, BTN bets 12.7 BB, fold

BTN wins 51.2 BB

bet OTT, ~50%

If he call, OTr again 50% or maybe even smaller, 40%. On club check and give up...

You can play passive OTF, but TTx is not like 77x (bad), also the clubs...

Also you will have an other options OTR. Check-fold or check-call. Can be good vs some players. But OTT bet is the best option. Not close...

Why bet the flop?

Say it ...What you waiting for!? "Only a weaker hands will fold". Check-call then . Actually some weaker hands will call vs this size. A lot...

The main question here is "Do he have KTo, QTo and JTo?". Or not...If not, well 50/50 I think. If yes...Ugly...Still we can check-call, but will be very ugly. He can do whatever he want to do. It is not so easy to play passive here. Good info needed...

I think with this bet we have maybe 20% Fe (without JTo-KTo) and still good equity in this spot.

This spots are so important. Not only the paired boards...

Only 17 hands , but he look like an aggro fish. 17 hands, but better than nothing. FCB , this is 2/3, but vs this size.... I think we will start to bet vs our check OTF. You can check-call, but with plan to call on the other streets as well. If the board is suitable. If you can't call a huge bet with Ace high (like never), then don't do that. No shame...Still your kicker is good. Can be a lot worse...

About the check-raise. Imo not good, he will check-back a lot...If he bet, not so much FE...And "funny" equity also. With this hand...I mean with such an aggro move...Not with check OTF. You have good equity there. I dont know about check-raise OTF, some people like to do that. But this is weird...With this and similar hands.

The main plan is to play passive. Or small bet...OTF...But also with some other hands. Not only Ace high...I don't like "the balance", but here is needed. We know nothing. What he can do here...I mean when you are OOP vs wide range...IP is different. Vs narrow range also. Different...
But I think you will play exactly the same with many other hands. Everything is fine then . OTT is easy already, just bet as bluff vs the pocket pairs. And still you have equity vs draws. And let's say AJ...If he call OTT...Gutshot, one overcard...Easy bet...And OTR you can use your showdown equity with check-call or check-fold. Or just bet. It is more simple...

What the heck are you talking about?

I like your style.

Why not to bet then?

Dude for starters I was asking the op not you and then you wrote this long post as a reply.

But sure, flop is polarized and not great for our range. We don't have as many Tx hands esp cause most peel preflop, we don't have 333, we also are OOP with a hand that doesn't want to get blasted off the flop. We can c/c flop and still fold some turns. It's not like we're massively exploitable by c/c sometimes on these kinds of flops and it should check through some % of the time.

I dont think im very good yet but i've come to the conclusion that I need to start talking about these things to really understand it. A lot of this is over my head, but I would have checked the flop. I feel I could check this hand down and win a lot, or call a bluff. Also villain has more tens im thinkin, could play it safe and win instead of bloating the pot. Who knows. Thanks!!

Everything you listed is basically correct. We have a hand with showdown value where the board favors villain thus checking is ideal cause we don't want to bet and get raised.

So quick rule of thumb is this:

When we have range advantage we want to bet flops at a higher frequency (Ie we 3b preflop or we raise preflop and the BB calls since BB will defend wider).

When the board favors us we want to bet larger sizes. (Ie btn opens, we 3b BB, btn flats and flop comes AQJ rainbow or whatever high card/paint card flop comes or stuff like KJ8 KQ5 etc).

Hope that helps get you a bit on the right track in terms of picking bet sizes. Obviously what hands and combos we want to pick is more complex and down the line.

I agree we should bet the flop, for basically he reasons stated here by kill and others.

The part I disagree with is “when the board favours us we want to bet larger sizes” I was taught that on flops where we want to have a very high c bet frequency (board favours our range) we want to bet smaller. To me this makes intuitive sense. If you and your opponent see a flop and both of you recognize that it is a board that favours your range it makes sense that you would lay them a better price to call, this also in turn makes our bluffs cheaper on boards that favour our range.


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The board favoring our range isn't when we want to have a higher frequency per say it's when we have range advantage. The board favoring us is when we want to bet bigger generally.

from https://www.consciouspoker.com/blog/...zing-strategy/

"
...

POKER BET SIZING STRATEGY
Now that you’ve determined you should bet, the question is, ‘how much?’

To determine the right poker bet sizing strategy, you first have you ask yourself this question: ‘how often am I betting in this situation?’ Or put another way, ‘what percentage of my range is betting here?’

In the example above, the answer is roughly 100%. As the preflop raiser, we’re always betting this flop because the board and situation heavily favor our range, so much so that we have to bet here almost regardless of our holding in order to achieve a balanced game plan.

How does the frequency of our betting relate to our poker bet sizing strategy?

It’s simple. The more frequently we are betting in a given situation, the smaller our bet sizing should be."

-Alec Torelli

see the article for context

That video appears to be pretty old from the linked article (posted 4 years ago). I'm possibly not remembering but I read an article from upswing on it that was more recent. Let me see if I can find the upswing article and see if I misread it.

I thought about it more and I think I may have misremembered but I def remember them talking about betting larger on certain boards like that. So I think cause it didn't mention frequencies potentially I maybe mixed it.

it is not so simple imo. You have a "range advantage" but before his action. If you use a large size, the question is "what advantage you have vs his calling range". No more "advantage" with large size. ...With small size also can be "no advantage", but better equity. Enough for call for example...Or another small bet....

I think for any situation, if you use a "high frequence" (wide range), you size must be small. No matter postflop or preflop. As default as well...

If you use a large size, your range must be polarized. That's I mean. Can't be "wide"...For example this situation. AQo on TT3...You can't use this hand for polarized range. You can't use a large size. You can use a small size. Or check...

Maybe in this article in Upswing they talk about polarized range. You must check with some very strong hands as well. Or you will be super capped. And for bet not so many hands for value in the polarised range. Large size, you must have good equity (more FE, good hands only). That's why the "large size" must be rare. No matter if the board is very good for us..As default. No info...

I can't explain my opinion better, sorry. But even if you look in "vacuum". For any hand. If you use a large size, you hand become "weaker". For the next streets. Ok, you can use a large size (good board for us) with bluff heavy range. But this obv is not good. If he calls too much, he is not doing a mistake. You do...You can use bluff heavy range for exploit. Obv...With info. Large size, small size...You can do whatever you want to do. For max profit...

"Ie btn opens, we 3b BB, btn flats and flop comes AQJ rainbow or whatever high card/paint card flop comes or stuff like KJ8 KQ5 "

If the field often fold here vs large size, then you can use that. With bluff heavy range or only bluff.

Dope thank you. I can already tell my decision to get into the conversations was the correct one. I've the rest of the conversation as well, thanks everyone for jumping in. I think I followed it too. Thanks for the help.

Preflop I'd go slightly bigger or flat. Think this is a good combo to bet blocking all QTs and ATs. I'd barrel the K here too.

What does your range look like preflop in this spot?