Hey,

How do I proceed here vs 3 bet and why?
If I remember correctly I opened quite a bit from lp and villain was definitely capable of 3betting light here. (Raise size doesnt seem like it though).

Thanks.



[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $4 Buy-in (600/1,200 blinds, 90 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37932595

SB: 28,903 (24.1 bb)
BB: 56,825 (47.4 bb)
UTG+1: 38,166 (31.8 bb)
UTG+2: 24,949 (20.8 bb)
MP1: 48,189 (40.2 bb)
MP2: 69,296 (57.7 bb)
Hero (MP3): 39,694 (33.1 bb)
CO: 47,810 (39.8 bb)
BTN: 54,586 (45.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A Q
4 folds, Hero raises to 2,616, CO raises to 8,180,

If this is our read I like 4bet jamming

All 3 options are viable, depends on how well you play in 3bet pots. If he is 3betting a polarized range then calling is the best option. If he is 3 betting a wide value range then jamming is the best option and if you get a read on his bet sizing then a case could be made for folding. Without read though, I see this sizing alot with 99-QQ

flat pre and go from there

This, if you think villain has some suited hands we beat/dominate.

When you guys say flat pre, is check folding a standard thing to do? if not do you ever consider taking other lines besides x/f?

Of course villain is going to have worse suited aces if he's 3b light, still think we should prob just rip it though.

If it was suited I'd be more inclined to flatting since we can have more playability on different runouts. It being offsuit makes flop decisions weird where as suited we can open jam more flops effectively.

Probably right, but feels like we're just letting those weaker hands off the hook by shoving, though the +EV of shoving is likely more demonstrable (i.e. he's likely folding an auto-profit % of his range to a 4b) than a rather murky post-flop spot where we'll have A-high more often than not in a commit/fold SPR without initiative.

I think you're attacking some board textures, giving up on others, also depends on whether you're facing a bet, how big, etc. Simple answer is you can't just call to play pure fit-or-fold.

I mean I get that, but that small factor/part of his range is negated I feel by just taking the pot down (which is fine) or not having to ever c/f any flops or w/e.

If you are flatting against someone who plays a polarized range(as you should) you cant just check fold. You are ready to stack off with marginal hands but you follow.a line that maximizes ev from his bluffs/low end of the polarized range. It also depends on the board and the line he takes and his postflop aggression. But im not folding very often post with such low spr. It just happens that flatting and allowing him to spew is more profitable than rejamming and allowing villain to play perfectly by folding the garbage and calling with jj+AQ+ . Vs villains who 3 bet hands like 77-99, AJ, KQ you sjould just jam pre.


But hand values shift in a 3bet pot. A high w/ Q kicker is often good enough vs a polarized 3bet range.


But even jamming vs a polarized range is still profitable, maybe not as much, but prob less variance and less exploitable and you are less likely to make mistakes. The problems becomes that around bubbles and FTswhere ppl start paying attention you need to balance your rejam range and that takes cajones. E.g. open /jam 9Ts , small pp etc. Because if you only rejam good hands it becomes very profitable to 3 bet a polarized range against you esp if you are opening wide. Vs such villain you can literally 3bet ATC is the situation is good for it and just fold to 4bet.

This

I really dont think we should have an open jam range on flop after calling 3bet.

Fair enough, does that make you lean more towards shoving pre then based on that?

Not really im just checking to the 3better 100% otf. Esp with spr of around 2. C/c,c/f or c/jam depending on the action. Now if i 3 bet oop pf and he flats then sure, i have an open jam range and size my 3b to allow it. The classic go n go basically. But honestly im not afraid to check/call off with A high on certain flops if it doesnt make sense for him to jam, etc. If he has us beat pf im not concerned about losing to that part of his range otf coz we would have lost to it either way and im not calling to get away from that. Im calling to let him spew with the weaker part of his range. Would flat 3bet with AA vs polarized 3 bet too. The biggest factor that decides call vs jam pre for me is whether his wide 3b range is polarized or not.

Yeah, fair enough, no real disagreement.

Ok I can dig this, thanks for the analysis. Maybe I've been leaking by open shoving in these spots granted I don't have too many 3b spots like this.

Meh i honestly dont think open jamming AQ on decent flops in 3bet pots is a losing play so wouldnt really call it a leak and prob less variance.


You could make a case for donk betting tiny to induce too.(not balancing this). E.g on 23Q flop, if hes a spazz then i think small donk works out better than c/c. Vs a more solid villain i would just c/c

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cPGHPEVmm-o

Just came across this. Very relevant