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08-10-2017 , 09:14 PM

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

Hi v was 30/27/20 after 44, thoughts on all streets appreciated

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $15 Buy-in (60/120 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37807450

BB: 15,597 (130 bb)
UTG+2: 3,671 (30.6 bb)
MP1: 4,205 (35 bb)
MP2: 6,149 (51.2 bb)
MP3: 5,195 (43.3 bb)
CO: 5,426 (45.2 bb)
BTN: 7,221 (60.2 bb)
Hero (SB): 7,484 (62.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

4 folds, CO raises to 299, BTN folds, Hero raises to 978, BB folds, CO calls 679

Flop: (2,196) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets 866, CO raises to 1,732, hero?

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08-10-2017 , 09:15 PM

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

id cbet smaller, calling now of course. not planning on folding.

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08-11-2017 , 04:54 AM

Glaciem

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 1,830

3b is rather large.

Call.

CO has some A8s some 88 and 33 but also AJ,AT etc

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08-11-2017 , 05:27 AM

IHaveThreePair

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviid

id cbet smaller, calling now of course. not planning on folding.

What's your reasoning behind cbetting smaller here? Is it because we probably do that with our TT-KK?

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08-11-2017 , 05:45 AM

killer_kill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 28,610

Call, what's the turn?

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08-11-2017 , 06:26 AM

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveThreePair

What's your reasoning behind cbetting smaller here? Is it because we probably do that with our TT-KK?

its because our overall range needs little to no protection on such a dry board. also we do have a pretty reasonable range advantage on this flop after 3betting pre so people cant rly play back at us in those spots anyway.

id check most of my TT-KK in that spot.

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08-11-2017 , 06:48 AM

IHaveThreePair

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviid

Sounds reasonable.

What hands are you expecting villain to call with on say a 1/3pot cbet that they would fold at say a 45%-50% cbet?

My thought process is more that they are probably folding most hands that don't connect here, can't see them floating with say KQs, maybe they do with a bd, so really we are hoping to get value from Ax that we crush, so we want to build the pot?

I'm trying to work on my Cbetting to I'd really appreciate the help! lol

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08-11-2017 , 07:19 AM

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

If villain is as aggressive as his stats indicate, how about checking the flop and letting him bet into you with his entire range?

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08-11-2017 , 07:38 AM

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveThreePair

i am honestly going to let him figure out what he wants to call with but logically the smaller we bet the wider he will call.

i think given stacksizes we can just bet three streets and get all of the money in otr.

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08-11-2017 , 07:42 AM

#10

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If villain is as aggressive as his stats indicate, how about checking the flop and letting him bet into you with his entire range?

i think thats very reasonable, however id probably check weaker Ax hands and bet bigger ones. lets say our 3betting range from sb against an aggressive opponent contains ATs+,AJo+ and some combos of A2-A5s we probably want to check all of the wheel Ax and some AJo/ATs while betting the others. that way we will also not get in trouble when we check our TT-KK otf.

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08-11-2017 , 09:11 AM

#11

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviid

Makes sense. However, I do wonder whether this kind of thinking is just too advanced for the majority of low stakes online players. Villain may be at the simple level of thinking, "He checked after 3-betting so he must be scared of the Ace. I'm going to steal this one."

This is something I've been wondering about for a while now. There's a lot of focus on balancing ranges in hand discussions but I think it might be an advanced concept that is necessary at higher levels but is just lost on the vast majority of small stakes tourney players.

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08-11-2017 , 10:14 AM

#12

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

i call, turn is 4d.

I check he jams allin 2701 into 5660 wug?

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08-11-2017 , 12:11 PM

#13

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowsooooted

i call, turn is 4d.

I check he jams allin 2701 into 5660 wug?

what better hand can you have other than AK? easy call.

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08-11-2017 , 04:01 PM

#14

HUHandEH

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5,458

Stats kind of dictate a call, his line is always gonna be the nuts.

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08-11-2017 , 07:58 PM

#15

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

I like check flop.

Line taken is fine too imo. Little annoying cus I can't really think of anything V could be bluffing with, but can't fold

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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08-11-2017 , 09:29 PM

#16

blank0909

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 379

I mix with call and 3b pre, can't see villain calling 3b pre with AK given stats.
Call turn move on.

Last edited by blank0909; 08-11-2017 at 09:49 PM.

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08-11-2017 , 09:38 PM

#17

Kev1498

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 290

The guy is repping nothing but A8, 88 and AA. But he probably slow plays those hands on this board given he is in position, calling this down and if he has us beat then so be it.

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08-11-2017 , 09:47 PM

#18

blank0909

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 379

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If villain is as aggressive as his stats indicate, how about checking the flop and letting him bet into you with his entire range?

Except villain could overbet turn for value when we call flop.
Most of the time villain is going to turn over A8,A3 and sometimes braindead Ax.

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08-11-2017 , 09:50 PM

#19

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

thnx all,

I called turn and he rolled over AK. I think the only way I can save my stack here is by folding flop to min click knowing the parts of his range I beat would only flat (AJ,AT) When I get clicked back, the vast majority of times its only by better hands.

Another way would be to flat call pre, but this seems a bit weak given positions and stats

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08-12-2017 , 07:12 AM

#20

Panny1

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,548

Don't be resultoriented, 3b pre is >>> flatting, you played it fine imo. His flopraise is atrocious though, you should make a note of that if he's a reg.

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08-12-2017 , 07:41 AM

#21

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by blank0909

Except villain could overbet turn for value when we call flop.
Most of the time villain is going to turn over A8,A3 and sometimes braindead Ax.

Sure but his range is a lot wider than that. In this case villain telegraphed the strength of his hand with his flop minraise and he just happened to have a strong hand. Most of the time against a villain like this he will fold a lot of his non-Ace hands to a bet but might bluff them if checked to.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

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12-07-2017 , 08:27 AM

#22

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If villain is as aggressive as his stats indicate, how about checking the flop and letting him bet into you with his entire range?

this seems fine, if we cbet and he has nothing he folds and we get no value, but if we check to him we can get value from his bluffing range that we wouldn;t have otherwise gotten from an aggressive player

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12-08-2017 , 02:52 PM

#23

user12345

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,737

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowsooooted

Calling flop is small mistake even vs tight range.
Generally one of those spots where we need discipline.

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12-08-2017 , 11:01 PM

#24

RPMcMurphy

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 235

I'd cbet smaller, too. Smaller than usual as an exploit against weaker players. Mainly for the reasons Daviid mentioned, but also because smaller bets will sometimes induce bluff-raises on this type of board. Checking is alright, too, if they are capable of barreling.

As played, I call and hope he barrels off the turn or river. Playing it this way keeps in his bluffs and he will usually jam his worse Ax on the turn. Also, nutted hands are almost always calling this flop and AK usually will 4b pre in these positions.

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