Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2019, 09:17 PM   #1
kwokc
newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 27
all in or raise ?

Hero QJo

So i was on the HJ with 11bb left with QJo
the CO had 7 bb, Button 22 bb, SB 30 bb and the BB 30 bb they were playing pretty tight.

So I jammed all in from the Hj was this the correct play or should I min raise or fold?

Thanks for replying
kwokc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 10:13 PM   #2
pokerhsmtt
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 235
Re: all in or raise ?

never min raising.
toss between a all in or fold.
pokerhsmtt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 11:40 PM   #3
nonsimplesimon
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nonsimplesimon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: OTR
Posts: 8,521
Re: all in or raise ?

It's fine.
nonsimplesimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 10:56 AM   #4
Darth_Maul
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,523
Re: all in or raise ?

Shove or fold, and it's very borderline according to push/fold charts. Given that the CO has 7bb and will be looking to get his chips in, I lean towards a fold.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 11:17 AM   #5
kwokc
newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 27
Re: all in or raise ?

Thanks for the reply Guys! Yeah I was not sure if it was a Good shove it was a bountey tourney so they Would call wider right ?
I had a bountey of 14$ the buy in was 2,20$
kwokc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 12:46 PM   #6
Darth_Maul
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,523
Re: all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwokc View Post
Thanks for the reply Guys! Yeah I was not sure if it was a Good shove it was a bountey tourney so they Would call wider right ?
I had a bountey of 14$ the buy in was 2,20$
In that case it becomes a clear fold. When you have a decent bounty on your head you should tighten up your shoving ranges to avoid people taking shots at you. So you have the risk of losing 7bb to CO and getting crippled, along with the risk of the other stacks who might target your bounty.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 01:51 PM   #7
streetwalkincheeta
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,059
Re: all in or raise ?

Blinds and starting stacks are relevant when it's a pko. Shoving should be fine here though.
streetwalkincheeta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 04:54 PM   #8
kwokc
newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 27
Re: all in or raise ?

which hands Would you shove ? Ax, 22+, KT+?
kwokc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 10:57 PM   #9
Braaperz
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 26
Re: all in or raise ?

Super easy shove in any game type, even in a bounty the value of higher cards goes up because people will call wider to win the bounty, e.g. I would call u with j9s 89s etc and other hands you are ahead of because u have a bounty. This makes it even better
Braaperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 04:33 AM   #10
Captain-Hindsight
grinder
 
Captain-Hindsight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 659
Re: all in or raise ?

**If you are not totally clear on your push fold ranges than just stick to shoving.**

I know some high level players incorporate a min raise fold strat with the top and bottom of their range when short stacked. The idea is that players should re shove wider than their call range is vs a shove. In this way can get more money into the pot with our premium hands and fade spots where the weak part of our shoving range gets called by hands that have us dominated.
Captain-Hindsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 01:51 PM   #11
Darth_Maul
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,523
Re: all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braaperz View Post
Super easy shove in any game type, even in a bounty the value of higher cards goes up because people will call wider to win the bounty, e.g. I would call u with j9s 89s etc and other hands you are ahead of because u have a bounty. This makes it even better
If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 05:44 PM   #12
Captain-Hindsight
grinder
 
Captain-Hindsight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 659
all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.


Iíve seen a couple sims that advocate shoving a similar percentage of hands but weighting the range more heavily towards Ax Kx and less suited connected type hands


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Captain-Hindsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 01:27 AM   #13
Braaperz
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 26
Re: all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.
Thatís not true, thereís more low-mid suited connectors in their range, there is none that call jam in non bounty, so value of high cards goes up. The same Ax and Kx hands call in both scenarios pretty much, and the only slightly wider additions might be hands like K9o which is effectively a flip vs QJ anyway
Braaperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:04 AM   #14
bumpnrun
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: lol imo
Posts: 2,362
Re: all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.


Only if you are a nit who likes blinding down to 5bb

Lots of worse hands will GII ...JT QT J9 Q9 J8s lower scs should correctly call ....gotta gambol it up and win some all ins to ship things
bumpnrun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 10:01 AM   #15
Darth_Maul
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,523
Re: all in or raise ?

This is borderline on the charts, what makes you guys think people are calling an 11bb shove with hands like JT/J9?
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 01:07 PM   #16
xamlop
old hand
 
xamlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,352
Re: all in or raise ?

If there is the usual 12.5% ante my chart says QJo is a shove in the HJ with 20bbs so not close at all. What chart are you guys looking at ?
xamlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:05 PM   #17
Darth_Maul
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,523
Re: all in or raise ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xamlop View Post
If there is the usual 12.5% ante my chart says QJo is a shove in the HJ with 20bbs so not close at all. What chart are you guys looking at ?
We have 11bb not 20. Using the FTT app, QJo is at the bottom of the shoving range with no tightness adjustment. At a 20% tighter adjustment, it becomes a fold. So that suggests to me that it is a borderline shove at best. If we should be shoving tighter in a bounty, which I think we should, then it's a fold.
Darth_Maul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 02:23 PM   #18
Lozgod
grinder
 
Lozgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 538
Re: all in or raise ?

Even in a bounty I think you have fold equity vs every stack except the CO assuming they are playing tight. Most tight players won't risk 1/3 of their stack unless they woke up with a hand. CO is going to call wide with any Ax putting you in a live card coin flip.

Shove makes sense to me because you are going to be down to 9bbs if you can't make a move before the blinds come and your shove options are getting tighter as you get earlier in position. So you will lose some fold equity after an orbit.

Folds around helps you get through blinds and vs a call you have equity. It's close but I shove.
Lozgod is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online