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all in or raise ?

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02-04-2019 , 09:17 PM

kwokc

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 530

Hero QJo

So i was on the HJ with 11bb left with QJo
the CO had 7 bb, Button 22 bb, SB 30 bb and the BB 30 bb they were playing pretty tight.

So I jammed all in from the Hj was this the correct play or should I min raise or fold?

Thanks for replying

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02-04-2019 , 10:13 PM

pokerhsmtt

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 236

never min raising.
toss between a all in or fold.

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02-04-2019 , 11:40 PM

nonsimplesimon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,011

It's fine.

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02-05-2019 , 10:56 AM

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Shove or fold, and it's very borderline according to push/fold charts. Given that the CO has 7bb and will be looking to get his chips in, I lean towards a fold.

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02-05-2019 , 11:17 AM

kwokc

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 530

Thanks for the reply Guys! Yeah I was not sure if it was a Good shove it was a bountey tourney so they Would call wider right ?
I had a bountey of 14$ the buy in was 2,20$

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02-05-2019 , 12:46 PM

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwokc

Thanks for the reply Guys! Yeah I was not sure if it was a Good shove it was a bountey tourney so they Would call wider right ?
I had a bountey of 14$ the buy in was 2,20$

In that case it becomes a clear fold. When you have a decent bounty on your head you should tighten up your shoving ranges to avoid people taking shots at you. So you have the risk of losing 7bb to CO and getting crippled, along with the risk of the other stacks who might target your bounty.

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02-05-2019 , 01:51 PM

streetwalkincheeta

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,132

Blinds and starting stacks are relevant when it's a pko. Shoving should be fine here though.

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02-05-2019 , 04:54 PM

kwokc

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 530

which hands Would you shove ? Ax, 22+, KT+?

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02-07-2019 , 10:57 PM

Braaperz

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 34

Super easy shove in any game type, even in a bounty the value of higher cards goes up because people will call wider to win the bounty, e.g. I would call u with j9s 89s etc and other hands you are ahead of because u have a bounty. This makes it even better

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02-08-2019 , 04:33 AM

#10

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

**If you are not totally clear on your push fold ranges than just stick to shoving.**

I know some high level players incorporate a min raise fold strat with the top and bottom of their range when short stacked. The idea is that players should re shove wider than their call range is vs a shove. In this way can get more money into the pot with our premium hands and fade spots where the weak part of our shoving range gets called by hands that have us dominated.

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02-08-2019 , 01:51 PM

#11

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braaperz

If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.

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02-08-2019 , 05:44 PM

#12

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.

I’ve seen a couple sims that advocate shoving a similar percentage of hands but weighting the range more heavily towards Ax Kx and less suited connected type hands

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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02-12-2019 , 01:27 AM

#13

Braaperz

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.

That’s not true, there’s more low-mid suited connectors in their range, there is none that call jam in non bounty, so value of high cards goes up. The same Ax and Kx hands call in both scenarios pretty much, and the only slightly wider additions might be hands like K9o which is effectively a flip vs QJ anyway

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02-12-2019 , 03:04 AM

#14

bumpnrun

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,888

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Maul

If people call wider in a bounty, the answer is to tighten up your shoving range not widen it. When you shove QJ there are very, very few worse hands that will call.

Only if you are a nit who likes blinding down to 5bb

Lots of worse hands will GII ...JT QT J9 Q9 J8s lower scs should correctly call ....gotta gambol it up and win some all ins to ship things

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02-12-2019 , 10:01 AM

#15

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

This is borderline on the charts, what makes you guys think people are calling an 11bb shove with hands like JT/J9?

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02-12-2019 , 01:07 PM

#16

xamlop

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,411

If there is the usual 12.5% ante my chart says QJo is a shove in the HJ with 20bbs so not close at all. What chart are you guys looking at ?

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02-12-2019 , 03:05 PM

#17

Darth_Maul

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 4,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by xamlop

If there is the usual 12.5% ante my chart says QJo is a shove in the HJ with 20bbs so not close at all. What chart are you guys looking at ?

We have 11bb not 20. Using the FTT app, QJo is at the bottom of the shoving range with no tightness adjustment. At a 20% tighter adjustment, it becomes a fold. So that suggests to me that it is a borderline shove at best. If we should be shoving tighter in a bounty, which I think we should, then it's a fold.

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02-14-2019 , 02:23 PM

#18

Lozgod

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,562

Even in a bounty I think you have fold equity vs every stack except the CO assuming they are playing tight. Most tight players won't risk 1/3 of their stack unless they woke up with a hand. CO is going to call wide with any Ax putting you in a live card coin flip.

Shove makes sense to me because you are going to be down to 9bbs if you can't make a move before the blinds come and your shove options are getting tighter as you get earlier in position. So you will lose some fold equity after an orbit.

Folds around helps you get through blinds and vs a call you have equity. It's close but I shove.

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