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AK on a missed board - how to play it? AK on a missed board - how to play it?

12-19-2017 , 03:48 AM
HI guys, I submit a following hand that I butcherd from start to finish and would like to know your opinion on how to play AK when you miss. I´ll try to submit my thought also on to play it better, so pls let me know what do you think.

The tabble is 9 handed. Blind are 350/700, 50 ante. I am on the button.
Seat 1: Smalli blind (18248 in chips)
Seat 2: Big blind (18111 in chips)
Seat 3: riterman (15848 in chips)
Seat 4: Villain (48610 in chips)
Seat 5: kidkolas (15184 in chips)
Seat 6: evgenii1944 (19864 in chips)
Seat 7: wilbral (49034 in chips)
Seat 8: luciano.R361 (59190 in chips)
Seat 9: HERO (25153 in chips)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Kh Ad]
riterman: folds
Villain: raises 700 to 1400
kidkolas: folds
evgenii1944: folds
wilbral: calls 1400
luciano.R361: calls 1400
HERO: raises 4200 to 5600
UKDodge: folds
Xasama_gg: folds
Villain: calls 4200
wilbral: folds
luciano.R361: calls 4200

I think my 3bet is much to small, in retrospect I would prefer just shoving, because the pot is quite big, I have a lot of fold equity and if called, I have a good hand. I don´t think that someone (outside the original raiser) is slowplaying a monster preflop, that almost never happens, so either I am flipping if called, or I have caller dominated. What do you think?

*** FLOP *** [6s 3c Tc] - pot 19700chips, I have about 19500 chips
QuéOta?: checks
luciano.R361: checks
Oviii Kenobi: bets 6300
Villain: calls 6300
luciano.R361: folds

My flop bet is standard and also a mistake comparing to my stack size, cause on the flop I have a pot size stack, so I should just shove, right? If someone hit a set, I am just dead, but other than that, it would be pretty sick for 77, 88, 99 or flush draws to face a pot size shove, what do you think? I know with the pairs he has to be right only 33%, and flush draws will have the right price to call, but if you look at my value range, which has top set, JJ+ and bluff range AQ and AK, A2 - A5s, some combos of 76s, 78s, 98s, JTo, that has a lot of equity on this flop, I think that shove is the best option. What do you think?

*** TURN *** [6s 3c Tc] [9d] - pot 32300 and I have about 13000 in my stack, villain covers significantly.
QuéOta?: checks
Oviii Kenobi: checks

Here I just give up, because I don´t have enough chips to have fold equity, cause if I shove, villain has to be right only about 22%. Do you think that I should just shove and hope that villain would think that I have a big pair or a flush draw that just got there? I know that it is hard for villain to have somethink other than a middle pair, but still, would you call this small shove on villains seat?

*** RIVER *** [6s 3c Tc 9d] [3h]
QuéOta?: checks
Oviii Kenobi: checks

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain: shows [8d 8s] (two pair, Eights and Threes)

So let me know what you think. Thanks.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-19-2017 , 02:32 PM
3bet larger pre (shove). We really want to fold out all but one hand. And we'd be very happy to take down this big pot without seeing a flop. Our 3bet was called by 88. I doubt Villain would risk half his stack on 88, which is further proof we should have shoved.

Unfortunately, we go to the flop 3-handed and we miss completely. It checks to us and we only bet 1/3 pot. That sizing screams weakness. If we had an overpair or flush draw, we'd bet half or more. Take a shot at this flop. We're representing a big hand with our 3bet pre. If they feel they can't beat QQ+, we may win the pot right here.

Turn is a 9d. Unlikely to help anyone except 99. I doubt we were called pre by 87s or QJ. Checks to us. Again, us checking here screams weakness. Plenty of hands we have fold equity with. Bluff shoving here is our last chance at winning this pot most likely, barring an A or K hitting on the river, which is unlikely. But our story doesn't make a lot of sense now since we checked flop, so our shove is more likely to get called by any pair. We've given up on the hand at this point.

River pairs the board. No flush draws got there so we can't even bluff. We've shown weakness two streets in a row. Villain should be betting into us. But he checks for the third straight street. And we can only hang our head in shame and check back because we played this so poorly.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-19-2017 , 03:17 PM
Oviii,
Given how you played this hand pre I'd be more likely to bet 2/3-3/4 on the flop repping over cards. I'm not 100% sure A/K off is in a 35bb open shove range, but I do like it as a 3-bet shove.

-Kyle
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-19-2017 , 03:57 PM
You are right guys, 3bet shove pre, or as played shove on the flop is the best play, i knew it as soon as i got on the turn, but at that point it was already late AK on a missed board - how to play it?

Odesláno z mého SM-G935F pomocí Tapatalk
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-19-2017 , 05:08 PM
Shoving pre is fine, but it looks pretty obvious you have AK IMO. They will usually play well against this by calling with pairs and folding hands that you dominate. I think your raise size is fine. If you think they are capable of calling off with AQ, etc. then jamming is fine, too.

On the flop, I just check back. In 3 way pots, both villains will miss only around 33% of the time. Here, that number should be even lower since this is a 3b pot and their ranges are much stronger than usual. No need throwing in more money in a bad spot just because you were the preflop aggressor.

I think jamming flop is better than a small cbet, but if I'm villain I'm never folding 77-99 or 10x. The problem with the jam is that it is going to need to work around 50% of the time and that just isn't happening in this spot. IMO it will only work <30% of the time...probably much less.

Last edited by RPMcMurphy; 12-19-2017 at 05:25 PM.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-20-2017 , 08:07 PM
To me the golden rule has always been if we leave ourselfs about pot size on the flop, you should be looking to ship there where you have fold-equity.

There might be a few exceptions if you have more specific reads or whatever, but you are just throwing away so much equity there and cbetting with missed overs and no club just leaves you with tough turn spots as you found out.

as played, shutting down after flop seems fine.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-20-2017 , 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMcMurphy

I think jamming flop is better than a small cbet, but if I'm villain I'm never folding 77-99 or 10x. The problem with the jam is that it is going to need to work around 50% of the time and that just isn't happening in this spot. IMO it will only work <30% of the time...probably much less.
True, but checking back flops we're throwing away half of our equity if we miss the turn. IME this also looks like AK a lot, and 100% of the time are facing a turn bet. I do also check this back a lot 3-handed, but i'm never really happy about this.
Maybe it's a little bit better you are folding and still have 25bb to play with.

I prefer jamming because I i were to jam JJ+ here to protect.

Last edited by easyrider0; 12-20-2017 at 08:24 PM.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote
12-20-2017 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider0
True, but checking back flops we're throwing away half of our equity if we miss the turn. IME this also looks like AK a lot, and 100% of the time are facing a turn bet. I do also check this back a lot 3-handed, but i'm never really happy about this.
Maybe it's a little bit better you are folding and still have 25bb to play with.

I prefer jamming because I i were to jam JJ+ here to protect.
Given their ranges in a 3bet pot, I just don't think we have close to enough fold equity. I don't expect them to fold mid pairs/Tx. A penny saved is a penny earned, I guess.
AK on a missed board - how to play it? Quote

      
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