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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 09-24-2017, 01:28 AM   #1
blank0909
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AA facing river bet

Checking back the turn is serious grave digging.
190 vs flop x/r and fold river as played?

Should've not missed a bet ott(giving villain free river card) when villain checks making the river fold less of a guessing game.(Which hand does villain click otf right?)

Again it's hard to believe I have villain beat otr.

PS: Sizing preflop sigh....

    Poker Stars, $4 Buy-in (5,000/10,000 blinds, 875 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37835572

    Hero (BTN): 413,615 (41.4 bb)
    SB: 373,226 (37.3 bb)
    BB: 318,370 (31.8 bb)
    UTG+1: 245,287 (24.5 bb)
    UTG+2: 159,124 (15.9 bb)
    MP1: 209,087 (20.9 bb)
    MP2: 328,853 (32.9 bb)
    MP3: 160,514 (16.1 bb)
    CO: 478,998 (47.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A A
    6 folds, Hero raises to 20,000, SB folds, BB calls 10,000

    Flop: (52,875) Q T 7 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 24,630, BB raises to 60,000, Hero calls 35,370

    Turn: (172,875) 9 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks

    River: (172,875) 8 (2 players)
    BB bets 88,166, Hero folds




    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

    Last edited by blank0909; 09-24-2017 at 01:44 AM.
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    Old 09-24-2017, 02:05 AM   #2
    wowsooooted
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I dont mind pilling it in on the flop, it sort of makes our hand look a bit more drawy like KJ,J9,89 and he could call it off with Qx, or shrug/call with a draw with the amount of dead money in the middle. I think I would play some of those draws like this anyway so it makes sense to play overpairs the same way.

    I don't think this is a x/r as a stone cold bluff too often, more likely a semi-bluff, Qx or the top of his value range so that would also support raising the flop.

    As played, the only reason I would see to calling the flop is to induce a turn bet where he would have folded otherwise, so you need to bet this, there is alot of draws out there
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    Old 10-03-2017, 01:58 AM   #3
    LektorAJ
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    @wowsooooted Do you mean we would overbet 3-bet all in on the flop or 3-bet and call a 4-bet?

    I think at that stage we're mostly against better hands.
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    Old 10-03-2017, 06:32 AM   #4
    wowsooooted
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
    @wowsooooted Do you mean we would overbet 3-bet all in on the flop or 3-bet and call a 4-bet?

    I think at that stage we're mostly against better hands.
    yea I would 3b jam or 3b/c, thinking im slightly leaning towards 3b jam.

    I don't think he always has better here when he x/r, he can have KJ,J9,98 or Qx, he shouldn't have sets as this mostly 3b pre, he can def have some 2p combos but we still have outs against this.

    Do you think we should call flop and reasses the turn?
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    Old 10-03-2017, 05:34 PM   #5
    LektorAJ
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Those hands won't call a 250K raise all in. The ones that will have us crushed.

    Yes, I'd flat and let him put in another bet on the turn with a wider range before we jam.
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    Old 10-03-2017, 11:37 PM   #6
    FreakDaddy
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I think at a $4 buy-in with 32 effective to start the hand, you can 3-bet jam this flop and get called by worse quite often. I don't mind calling the CR OTF, but once he checks the turn you should be betting.
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    Old 10-04-2017, 02:18 AM   #7
    LektorAJ
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I agree with the above - it's true that some hands will call sometimes - the point is that by flatting flop we keep as many of them in as possible.

    If my post isn't clear I mean jam turn when he continues after his check-raise. As played where he checks then size turn to get it in over two streets (whether you actually do so on the river depends on the run out)
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    Old 10-04-2017, 04:50 AM   #8
    Primrose6789
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    We could jam flop for value and protection

    Quote:
    I think at a $4 buy-in with 32 effective to start the hand, you can 3-bet jam this flop and get called by worse quite often.
    ..and this "worse" is quite often a draw at this flop texture. Against a draw we have about 70 % equity. A set has us crushed but with QQ f.e. Villain would probably have 3-bet pre. There are only 3 combos of TT and 77 each and something like KJ, QJ, JTs fits into such a "typical" calling range. With our AA we block the broadway-str8? (hope it´s not wrong what I say here )
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    Old 10-04-2017, 07:01 AM   #9
    wowsooooted
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I think if you jamming KJ,J9,98 otf you have to jam AA too. Im deffo jamming KJ with the over card as outs and having the other draws dominated.

    The point of jamming it actually makes our hand look weaker. Because we polar we have alot of draws at the bottom of our range and might get looked up by any Qx or by a draw getting priced in. By flatting flop his draws do better time against us then by jamming flop, also its not 100% hes going to lead turn where we can come over the top. When we have 1:1 SPR or less ott I like flatting alot more because we can jam turn regardless of wether he bets or not
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    Old 10-10-2017, 09:08 AM   #10
    mandanced
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I dont follow your logic when you say you dont want to jam on the flop because you want to keep worse hands in? if that were the case, why then would you just fold on the river, what is the point? Did you have a plan for the hand prior? I think he could easily have outplayed you here with something like KQ or a missed draw etc.
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    Old 10-10-2017, 10:19 AM   #11
    daviid
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mandanced View Post
    I dont follow your logic when you say you dont want to jam on the flop because you want to keep worse hands in? if that were the case, why then would you just fold on the river, what is the point? Did you have a plan for the hand prior? I think he could easily have outplayed you here with something like KQ or a missed draw etc.


    the point is that there are far more worse hands than AA otf than there are otr.

    i agree with gii otf though.
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    Old 10-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #12
    Colinb7
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
    Those hands won't call a 250K raise all in. The ones that will have us crushed.

    Yes, I'd flat and let him put in another bet on the turn with a wider range before we jam.
    Not in agreement with first part regarding not getting called by worse on flop, but def think best line is call the raise on flop to gii on turn. As played I think shoving turn is best. Really well played hand until missed turn bet, which was criminal!!
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    Old 10-10-2017, 11:21 AM   #13
    Darth_Maul
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wowsooooted View Post
    I think if you jamming KJ,J9,98 otf you have to jam AA too. Im deffo jamming KJ with the over card as outs and having the other draws dominated.

    The point of jamming it actually makes our hand look weaker. Because we polar we have alot of draws at the bottom of our range and might get looked up by any Qx or by a draw getting priced in. By flatting flop his draws do better time against us then by jamming flop, also its not 100% hes going to lead turn where we can come over the top. When we have 1:1 SPR or less ott I like flatting alot more because we can jam turn regardless of wether he bets or not
    I agree with this. There are so many turn cards that will make things uncomfortable and our range is wide enough that we can make our hand look bluffy/drawy by overshoving the flop.

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    Old 10-18-2017, 09:45 AM   #14
    blank0909
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    Complicated...I don't know whether protecting > discipline.
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    Old 10-18-2017, 10:24 AM   #15
    CIUC0
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    Re: AA facing river bet

    I like the 190k option on the flop....it gives you a chance to reevaluate after he reacts. I think its fine to gii here if he 4-bet shoves over top, but the sizing also gives you a chance to get away if that's what you are looking for. Really depends on V...how is he playing, where are we in the tourney, what are you expecting him to do with a draw here vs a strong hand. I am not worried about either QQ or 10/10, I think both are likely 3-betting your button minraise. So that means we're only scared of Q/10 and 77 here, which are def in V's range, but so are KK, JJ, suited broadways, and whatever junk he may have thought was suitable to call one extra big with (again, V dependent on the last one).
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