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Small Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of small stakes MTT strategy

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Old 11-08-2017, 08:01 PM   #1
Joao.Cardoso
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9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

There are 13 players left. I only have 13BB's and I'm 9th out of 13th.

There are 7 players on my table. A regular open shoves 11BB UTG. I'm right next. What hands should I call?

No clue about his range but I assumed all pairs, +ATs, Ajo+ and maybe KJs+.

At this point 13th gets 7 buy-ins, 10-12th gets 8 buy-ins and then ladder starts normally - 1st gets 112 buy-ins. I tried to run these on ICM but I'm having problems with the overcalls and such it's hard to calculate correctly.

Any help?
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:30 PM   #2
Percyeus86
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

As you have pointed out, the pay jumps are not significant enough at this stage to be of great concern. Playing too tight with you sitting 9th is likely to see you end up in that position or slightly worse.

That said, he's shoving UTG with 11bb's. We can assume he's shoving 44+, A8s+, ATo+, KQo, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s and lets also put A5s into that mix.

Run some numbers through ICMizer, but plain and simple, I'd be calling a similar range to this one.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:51 PM   #3
Joao.Cardoso
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

Calling a similar range seems a big mistake to me at this point even though the ladder only starts at the final table. I think surviving and be the one to shove has a lot of merit.

In fact, calling similar to a shoving range is pretty much a big mistake at any point in a tournament. You always need a better hand to call even if there's no ICM involved. Still thanks for your input.

Any other opinions on this?
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:04 PM   #4
Percyeus86
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

You pretty much just answered your own question man. If you feel that you need a much stronger hand, do the math and figure out which hands are profitable calls, I think you'd be surprised though.

GL
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #5
Kev1498
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

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Originally Posted by Percyeus86 View Post
As you have pointed out, the pay jumps are not significant enough at this stage to be of great concern. Playing too tight with you sitting 9th is likely to see you end up in that position or slightly worse.

That said, he's shoving UTG with 11bb's. We can assume he's shoving 44+, A8s+, ATo+, KQo, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s and lets also put A5s into that mix.

Run some numbers through ICMizer, but plain and simple, I'd be calling a similar range to this one.
Calling anywhere close to that range is a very -eV play. Not to mention I don't think he's jamming Jx and Tx either, seems really wide.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:43 PM   #6
Joao.Cardoso
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

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Originally Posted by Kev1498 View Post
Calling anywhere close to that range is a very -eV play. Not to mention I don't think he's jamming Jx and Tx either, seems really wide.
Yep, that was exactly why I wanted more opinions but seems obvious that at this point on the forums people that do study these spots tend to avoid helping at all probably knowing that sharing that information make the games harder and harder.

Still I run the numbers on ICMizer and I got a calling range of JJ+. Not even AK which I find really odd and that was what made me post here. I don't know if I did the calculations right and those are really the numbers or If I made some mistake. The real ladder only starts at the final table so I thought ICM would not be a major concern here.

If it's correct it shows the importance of having fold equity instead of being the caller. Still it seems too tight for 13 BB's... was expecting something like at least 99+; AK and at the very least even AQs.

Would love to know the opinion of more seasoned players on this spot.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:47 AM   #7
Kev1498
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Re: 9/13 left out of a 250 player field - ICM spot question

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Originally Posted by Joao.Cardoso View Post
Yep, that was exactly why I wanted more opinions but seems obvious that at this point on the forums people that do study these spots tend to avoid helping at all probably knowing that sharing that information make the games harder and harder.

Still I run the numbers on ICMizer and I got a calling range of JJ+. Not even AK which I find really odd and that was what made me post here. I don't know if I did the calculations right and those are really the numbers or If I made some mistake. The real ladder only starts at the final table so I thought ICM would not be a major concern here.

If it's correct it shows the importance of having fold equity instead of being the caller. Still it seems too tight for 13 BB's... was expecting something like at least 99+; AK and at the very least even AQs.

Would love to know the opinion of more seasoned players on this spot.
I think I'm calling 77+, AQo+, KQo+, AJs+. ICMizer is probably giving you a really tight range because you must have given him a really tight range like in your first post.
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