partypoker - 725/1450 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 151.62 BB (VPIP: 25.85, PFR: 14.78, 3Bet Preflop: 9.70, Hands: 296)
SB: 148.4 BB (VPIP: 20.17, PFR: 16.09, 3Bet Preflop: 3.90, Hands: 472)
BB: 137.48 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
UTG: 140.21 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 17.56, 3Bet Preflop: 9.77, Hands: 290)
Hero (UTG+1): 89.03 BB
MP: 141.6 BB (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
CO: 123.73 BB (VPIP: 28.81, PFR: 25.42, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 60)

7 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.34 BB) Hero has 8 8

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (7.34 BB, 2 players) 5 3 4
BB checks, Hero bets 2.5 BB, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero raises to 24 BB, BB raises to 134.36 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 165.7 BB


i have 4 hands on him so don't know anything

ok so let's say we call (don't think i can fold this otf) this x/r what's next? turn is blank and he bets 60% i call , river is a blank he bets and i have to fold right? so i thought when i 3b this flop i lose less if he have it.
what do you think is the best play here?

Sizing pre makes this spot worse than it should be. Cb and just call the x/r and see what happens ott, board is super wet so v can have combo draws in his range. I will be calling most turns barring club, 7 or 2 and deciding rivers

Why does he have to have it when he jams? What does he do with A6? The 3bet gained nothing.

BB clearly x-r for value here. he has 43s,53s,54s,33,44,55,A2s, A2o in his range esp after he called 3BB opening from EP. He might have x-r some draws that are not strong enough to x-c, but at this level of game I would ignore this possibility and just fold OTF. In live games I often see people do x-r like that and then proudly show their set.

Your flop bet of 2.5 bb made this spot way weirder than it has to be. Don't understand the thought process and would rather see a check than a bet this size. Other than that, I don't think calling off is something we can really do after the 5- bet shove. Fold and cry.
I want to say overall your bet sizing needs work, try to look at your hand and think about what your bets are trying to accomplish and what you expect other people to think you have. To me, it looks like you're trying to get into this leveling war and just sayings lookatme, I have the nutzzzz, to someone who hits this board harder than you do.

Folding is pretty terrible. You need to at least call the raise. OP what was your thought process for 3b flop? Hope to see a call so you can check turn and get to show down easy? If so that’s a leak.

You might think that fold is terrible, though you didn't even care to explain this, but this is clearly better than 3-bet that OP made lol.

The flop is way better for his range than yours so flop is a clear check behind. I love x/raising flops like this with most of my BB defense range because you can get overcards and marginal pairs to fold. That's why you can't just assume the x/r is for value, especially after Hero's small CB.

I appreciate the thinking behind the flop 3b but you don't want to make -ev plays to avoid having to fave difficult spots on later streets. If villain is bluffing you don't want him to fold all those bluffs. And if villain has a strong hand or draw that has great equity against your hand, you don't want to raise into that part of his range.

I think he probably is c/raising here with 2 pair or some kind of big draw/combo draw. If he had a set or a straight he's most likely going to flat your c-bet and try to go for 3 streets of value. I would flat his c/raise and save the 15.5BB's you used to c/raise for betting the turn when a non-club face card hits and he checks back.

^^^ on this flop x-r > call because :
1) a lot of overpairs and even overcards will pay(or cheerfully 3-bet like OP did);
2) x-r charges fd's that often c-bet here.
3) x-r with the top of our range allows to x-r weak draws that are not good enough to x-call to keep our range perfectly balanced.

No

That’s a fair point but it is still bad. I guess if your poor at post flop taking the weak tight option may be best. Refer to the points the first poster made.

dude, if everything that you can say is "it's bad" without any explanation then your PoV does not deserve to be considered at all.

OP you say that "don't think i can fold this otf", but why not? Do you call with any SDV from your range on this flop?

You really need to stop "lol"ing at people's posts and dismissing opinions that don't agree with yours. People come to this forum to learn and discuss hands, not to be disrespected by a pompous little ****.

Again, the points were reflected on the first response. No reason to repeat.

By your thought process villain is only raising with a value range in this spot, however take some time to think about what our line reps with this small bet.

U really need to stop telling me what I should do.

if "don't think i can fold this otf" is the only "point" that you can make then we don't have anything to discuss further. gg, gl.

Grow up. Keep behaving the way you want and you'll find that nobody wants to discuss hands with you.

Settle down folks we're all here to learn. This spot I think is a lot more simpler than it looks as it's almost next to impossible to determine whether or not villain is raising with a combo draw or a made hand, that being said I don't think we can justify re-raising this flop without fully committing to it afterwards, against even combo draws we're not looking to good. So I say we either go with it or let it go after we've made the re-raise, because now we're investing close to 90BB's in a fairly marginal spot where we're probably at a coin flop slightly ahead or completely dead.

I agree with Cizixap. Just to add something which he maybe said is that people just dont bluff enough even to that board. I mean there is so little amount of total bluffs like T9o, its almost always straight, 2 pair or a set and the rest are semibluffs which have so good equity against 88 that its just better to fold on the flop. Your villain will never know what cards you just had and exploit you because of that.