Hi,

I played this hand yesterday in a PKO FT. I was the last player and had a decent hand so I insta shoved this hand but after the game, I went to SimpleNash to check if it was good and it says it's -EV which I find strange since it's a standard shove for many push/fold charts including RYE's and it also feels right. How reliable is SimpleNash for ICM and was the shove good?


PokerStars - 40000/80000 Ante 10000 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 9.88 BB
CO: 12.7 BB
BTN: 20.25 BB
SB: 18.78 BB
BB: 19.86 BB
UTG: 37.91 BB

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has 8 7

fold, Hero raises to 9.76 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 8.76 BB

You both are right . The shove is -EV. Still a good shove. The "calculator" "see" the things in vacuum. Only a single hand. You need this -EV shove (a "little" -EV). You stack very often will be so small. After a few hands. If you fold.

I'm seeing this as a ~+0.1bb shove, little less because 6 handed. If this wasn't at a FT I'd say go ahead and shove, because it is I'd fold.

I don't think that accounts for the bounties in it. I mean I'd prob fold since they'll be so incentivized to call with hands that still beat you like QJ/KT etc.

Taking a -ev spot costs us chips in equity where as folding is 0/neutral. So if a play is -ev you're costing yourself chips even if you monetarily gain some. There are times you might wanna take a slight -ev spot like in a tournament much higher than your normal buyin or a very tough table where it's slightly -ev but increases your variance a lot.

I don't understand you. You want to argue with me or what? In every topic. Why you just don't play some poker and then come here and explain to me why this shove is bad!? Every good player will shove here. And he know about the EV, about the negative EV.

You have a problem , mate. You talk about the "aggression" in the forums, for a similar things. But you always must be right. And if you are obv wrong for some thing and someone show to you this, you start to "chasing" him. This is pathetic, mate. I thinked different about you.

I can't see your posts anymore. And I don't care. Do what you want. In your personal forum.

Well, I'm getting mixed responses about the play being good or bad. I figured I didn't have a lot of time to be waiting for something better. Was fold better than shove here? If I was in 5th place, I might have folded but I was last. My bounty was 9x the tournament buy-in so people would want to call my shove.

What you expect to happen here? In this tournament...If you double up, you will cover everyone except UTG. You can play for bounties as well. More EV for every hand, which you will have. Or you can play more hands. The same thing...More profit...

Or you can fold...The blind is coming. The blinds are coming. You will not have an opportunity for open shove. If you are lucky, you will have a strong hand. The top...Very top...But this will be very rare. Very often you will end up with 8bb stack. And then you will pray for 87s.... But then will be less EV in this shove.

Every experienced player will shove here. He will "feel the pressure". And the reason for this feeling is the experience. This can't be +EV shove. Not with such a hand. Not with a similar hands. But this is not fifty50 or DoN. Just shove with something . No time to wait...

I felt that the shove was good and I've always done this in other tournaments. You can't win a tournament without luck and you have to take chances sometimes. Just wanted to see what other players said and there is no consensus in this thread

I feel like I did explain in the post above.

Ok, I'm not sure what the rest is about but I'm sorry if I made you feel a certain way or if anyone has felt that way.

The post(s) you got called out about were for mocking mental health and telling a users to take their pills. None of that has anything to do with poker.

PKO tournaments are very tricky due to the bounties is why people can't give you an exact range.

If someone explains in a long post, at high level, how raise-fold is good, 2.3x with AKs vs short stacks (6+6+13), almost no ICM, with an ante, yes, he is mentally ill. Or a troll...

I didn't say "permanently ill", a cripple. He should stop the drugs and take some suitable relaxing pills, that's it. Not a big deal...

I think the bounties are the key thing - without bounties we should shove even if slightly -$EV when players call correctly - especially at a FT when people will call too tight - bounty will make people call looser though so we should fold

OP, the reason that you get mixed answers it's because it's a PKO tournament.
If you don't include all the data, you will get biased answers

Next time, include the bounties or no one can answer you. Bounties at FT are worth like 40% of starting stack ( more or less)
As played it's a CLEAR FOLD. You probably had several bounties on you and that only incentivize that people will call you light ( and there are 3 players with the proper stack to do it)
The worse connector I'd jam is JT's. Something like A9o+ A5s+ KJ+ QJ+ JT's+ 55+ with 10bb stack as underdog in FT PKO

Also, using Nash tables for PKO is useless. Search the free videos of RYE on bounty tournaments for more info

It was a 5€ MTT and my bounty was 44€. I didn't include bounties on the software I used cause it doesn't seem to be able to handle different bounties for different players.

Do you really think I should have folded? It's not like I was waiting for someone to get stacked before me. And do you know the software SimpleNash? Is it reliable? Since it's free, I don't know..