I posted this in my other thread but it might gotten clustered where most people might not been able to read it.




So I notice that when players are OOP, they are 3betting much larger... close to like pot size. Is this standard even when your stacksize is like 30bb and less?


Example


Blinds 500/1000. Button has 40000. SB has 40000. BB has 35000.


Button makes it 2200 or 2.2x


SB 3bets to 7000 or 3.5x the initial raise. I notice sometimes they do it to as large was 8000 or 8x. So basically when you 3bet from the SB here, it should be minimum 7000? thus making it 6600 isn't enough?


So if the player was in the BB. What is the standard 3bet sizing when the button raises 2.2x or 2200? Is it 7000 or so? I always read that you should be minimum 3x the initial raise when OOP. And many times you go 3.5x to 4x it OOP when say 40bb and less? But what surprised me was you really are suppose to 3bet that big OOP? I could understand that when you are deeper stack but is it standard when under 40bb? I read an article from they said the reason for this is because if you 3bet smaller.. say like when they make it 2.2x and say you make it only 5.5x or even 6x which is 3x less than their initial raise, now they can come over the top and just 4bet on you. Or even 4bet jam But if you 3bet big like making it 7000-8000 on a 2200 button raise, now they don't have that option?


What is the standard 3bet size when in the SB and BB when button makes it 2.2x on the button when effective stack size is


1. 30bb
2. 40bb
3. 50bb
4. 60bb
5. 80bb
6. 100bb


I would assume something like


1. 7000
2. 7500
3. 8000
4. 8000
5. 8000 -8500
6. 8000 - 9000



Would this be about right? So you should never be 3betting to anything under 7k? Thus doing it to 5500 or 2.5x would just be foolish because you are giving the other player great pot odds? Also when you are 3betting to 7000 or 8000 here... you should use the same sizing whether you have AA or AK or A3 or 1010 or q9 right? The thing is many times when i play, i dont know what is the standard 3bet size. Back then it would be pot size or close to it. Then after a while i notice players were 3betting very small not even 3x.

Also when in position... say a player in middle position raises to 2.2x or 2200 with effective stack of 40bb or 40000 chips. If you are in late position and 3bet, what is the minimum size you need to make it? Shoudl it be minimum 3x it so 6600 minimum? Back then i recalled i would see like 2.5x the 3bet size. Like raise 2200... the 3bet would be like 5500 which would give great pot odds to original raiser. Then i notice pplayers would 3bet between 2.5x to 2.75x it. But should you be minimum making it 3x the initial raise in position? I know when in position, you should be 3betting smaller. But if you 3bet 3.5x-4x OOP... then 3betting IP should be minimum 2.75x to 3x? Also i notice lot of player would 3bet IP like 3.5x to 4x even when 30-40bb. Is that too much?


Another example i have would be say someone raises to 2200. You have AJo which is good to 3bet. 40bb effective stack and MP raises and you are in CO or button with AJo. What should be the standard 3bet size with 40bb stacks? What about 60bb? What about 80bb? What about 100bb if you were 3betting it?



What I also notice is say players are 80bb deep for example. Say 500/1000 blinds to make it simple. Player in MP raise to 2.5x or 2500. The player on the button would 3bet to like 8500 or even 9000.



1. Is that the standard 3bet size in position with stacks of 80bb? I thought 3x was more than enough? Thus a playr makes it 2500 and you 3bet to 7500? So what should be the 3bet size in position in this example?


2. What if stack size is 50bb? Initial raiser makes it 2500 to go with 50000 stack or 50bb. Isn't making it 8500-9000 too big?


3. Stack size is 40bb? I noticed similar thing where a 3bettor would 3bet a 2200 or 2500 open with 50bb stacks to like 7500-8500 IN POSITION. And they are doing this with premium hands. Again isn't this pretty big? I always thought you don't need to 3bet this big in position


4. Stack size is 30bb? Now 30000 stack size with 500/1000 blinds. Initial raiser makes it 2200. What is standard 3bet size in position here? So its incorrect to make it as low as 5500 or 6050? Thus 2.5x or 2.75x? Back then i recalled a 3bet size in position was like 2.5x or 2.75x. But now its different and its minimum 3x the 3bet size even with stacks of 30bb only? That is what im noticing at the tables.


5. I believe people say a 3bet all in should never be more than 25bb. Thus if you have a good reshove stack which is 20bb... then you 3bet all in. But with a 25bb stack, should you almost always 3bet all in as oppose to 3betting less? I could understand doing that if you have say aa to qq. But anything else probably should be rejammed to make it simple? I also notice that people seem to 3bet jam with hands like 55 or 77 with 30bb to a late position raise. Is that standard? Obviously reshove works good because those hands don't play good out of position. But how much bb max should one have before rejamming all in? I seen players 3bet all in with 55 with like 35bb. But is that standard?

Does anyone here have some general answers to the sizing questions here?

Yes.

We can go smaller in specific spots (ICM implications in TF for exemple) but in general we don't want to give great odds OOP and we care less IP. Though sometimes it makes sens to go small if our range is exclusively nuts, for exploitative reasons if V is not that good.

Yes you should size larger OOP generally, but not sure why you are assuming random players that you've watched have any idea what they are doing.

This doesn't really make sense. If your range is reasonably balanced you don't need to worry about people 4betting you light (this barely happens anyway).

No, you can definitely 3bet smaller than that with < 30/40BBs

Not necessarily. Balancing can often be disregarded at microstakes

All of this depends on so many factors and there's no right answer that will be optimal in every spot. But generally, from reading the OP, I'd say that it seems you overestimate how big you need to size.

I notice players are 3betting extremely big in the BB even with stacks of 30bb or less. Is this common and standard? I mean when you are not deep, why are players doing this? They are doing this with super premiums.


Shouldn't they be 3betting less because they want action? I can understand 3betting bigger with say a bad ace or AJ but players are doing this with ak+ and even qq+.