Hello,

I seem to get in trouble close to final tables or maybe im just being result oriented

At what stage of an MTT, how close to the final table should you take ICM into consideration? Playing more careful etc?

I reshoved here with ATs 28bb 5.50 Sunday stack, 6k field, with 26 players left, spew? I usually reshove up to 30bb in these spots if no ICM is in play.

With more than 30bb I either flat or 3bet fold, depending how the value of the hand.

SB is sitting out. So this is basically SB vs CO

I ask about ICM because in my head in an ICM scenario we probably need AJ+, 77+ here to reshove i think??

PokerStars - 30000/60000 Ante 6000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 19.75 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (BTN): 28.59 BB
SB: 0.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
BB: 105.19 BB (VPIP: 40.54, PFR: 28.08, 3Bet Preflop: 15.09, Hands: 151)
UTG: 13.66 BB (VPIP: 21.25, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 82)
UTG+1: 55.55 BB (VPIP: 35.29, PFR: 23.73, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 120)
MP: 13.98 BB (VPIP: 13.56, PFR: 7.02, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 119)
MP+1: 50.3 BB (VPIP: 32.35, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 35)
MP+2: 32.73 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has T A

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 raises to 2.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 28.49 BB and is all-in

I think we should defend this hand in the BB 30bbs deep.

Im on the BTN and SB is sitout I have 28.59 BB's

Oops sorry. Then we can still flat sometimes, as well as some brodways. If we're 3-betting I think making it like 7bbs should be better than shoving, at least we can induce some light 4-bets, when we 3-bet shove either he folds or we're doing pretty terrible vs his calling range. I guess 3bet shove is a move but doesn't look optimal.

Yeah I agree with you. I guess this close to Final table, 28bb is still a lot of chips. I guess should reshove this more like 20bb, maybe 25bb max.

Lol I was just watching a final table Sunday HR and I saw same move with A8o from Liv Boere for 35bb reshove SB vs CO and they all had 40bb or so.

Maybe my shove is fine after all

I don't think you're close enough to the FT to be too concerned with ICM.

If you flat, I think the BB either flats or squeezes, and neither is a bad situation. If he flats you go three way in position with a hand that plays well multiway. If he squeezes MP2 should either shove or fold, and I think your decision is easy from there. Definitely shoving over a BB squeeze or folding to a MP2 shove.

Your shove isn't bad, but I think you can also 3 bet/fold. One reason to make over shoves is if we're up against someone with a big stack that's going to flat then bully us post flop. Since MP2 has the same stack as us, they can't really get away with that and their preflop move is probably either jam or fold. If you 3 bet to 7 bb, you can still fold to a jam

I would say 3b/f > flat > jam > 3b/c > fold.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks you!

There are two very big differences between her situation and yours: she had A8o, which plays worse as a call than ATs, and she was in the SB, so she would be OOP postflop.

In a raiseyouredge video with lex, Ben said we can reshove comfortably up to 30bb any pair, any suited broadway, KJo+,A9+, A5s+ vs BTN, CO, HJ
https://youtu.be/0n5Yv2eJjqo?t=2055

However this close to the final table 26 left, I dont like to shove so big, thus my post here to ask for opinions.

How close to the final table should we should start playing a more careful game?

Bro i dont want to sound harsh but stop justify yourself with High-Stakes videos
Lex and Ben are reviewing a big tourny, don't take his advice here in low stakes. Yes , I know Ben advocates reshoving up to 25bb with those ranges, but his villains aren't that right
In small stakes people tend to right his range in this stages, and more with 30bb behind. He is raise/calling at least 80℅ of his tight range

As played is pure spew. More correct is 3b/fold or flat and play in position with a hand that is OK multiway

3-bet/fold is not absurd and is sometimes right but shove looks slightly EV+... If we 3-bet we have to considerer that he could and he will jam something marginal/stupid pretty often. If I think this is a 3-bet/fold I like the flat option and against quite a few players this is a 3-bet/call.

I would 3b but 7 bb's is a tad big. Can go prob 5.5 or 6 blinds. I know it seems nit picky but if we're folding to a jam we don't need to make it bigger.

This is the math of the shove:

If we assume HJ is opening 18% and calling off with about the top 8% we have:

4.9 BBs * 56% + 44%[(59.38BBs * 39%) - 28.49] = 0.39BBs cEV

Marginally profitable.

Calling

49% * 7.4BBs * 90% = 3.28BBs. The 90% is assuming BB shove 10% and you have to fold.

So calling is likely to be more profitable than shoving.

The estimated math for 6BBs/fold 3bet.

4% BB shoves.
22% the CO shoves. (4/18 = 22%)
50% CO folds.
Co calls 5% - 9% hands, you have 47% equity against that range.

25% you lose 6BBs = -1.5
48% you win 4.9BBs = 2.35
27% * 14.4 * 47% = 1.83

2.68 BBs. (Of course this ignored BB cold calls of the 3b, but for these stacks, he should realistically never cold call, but we all know this does happen.)

So in my estimation - call ~~~> 3b to 6BBs ~~~> Shove ~~~> fold.

18% is way to tight imo. It's CO not HJ, SB has 1 ante or so, and is sitting out
This is what i would be openning from the CO
22+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A5o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o
about 32%

Even if we cut this down to a more tighter arrange
55+, A2s+, K6s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo
It's still 25%

No, it's hijack. It's not about how many players are left to act after him, it is about how many are left to act IN POSITION after he acts. He is still 2 from the button.

The true CO can be more flexible since there is only one player in position after he acts.

Referring to Liv at all...lol