YoYo,

So I have been dabbling with $5 and $10 games they have on Stars. Has anyone here actually beat these for a decent sample?

First of all, the $5 games have 10% rake. The rake does get lower as you increase the buyin. With only 10bb starting stacks + antes, with blinds progressing like this every 2 minutes: 25/50 - 35/70 - 50/100 - 200/400 -300/600! (With huge antes) And big stacks calling you with almost ATC in order to get a KO, the variance is insane. Somehow I still want to be able to grind these out, they are fun and full of fish. I don't mind formats with small edges and crazy variance.
Anyways, I have played around 6k of these and have a combined ROI of about -3%. I have been a sng pro for many years, and have always prided myself with having one of the highest ROI's.

Would Stars ever put out a game that wasn't beatable? What can I do to get better at these? I feel ICMIZER alone isn't enough as I think there is more to discuss about winning strategy. Things like negative EV overcalling allin early in order to get a stack and multiple KO's.

If anyone has any knowledge of these, or could recommend a coach for me, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi,

you play way aboth my limits, so I want to give just a minor hint. Most players don't know how to calculate the bounty correctly and make horrible calls to hunt the bounty. It is important to convert the bounty into chips and then do the math (which is quite challenging while multi-tabling).

Also see here: https://www.cardplayer.com/cardplaye...ue-of-a-bounty

You might know that already though.

Hey Bubuman.

Thanks for the reply. No I did not know how to calculate a ko into chips, still relatively new to ko's. This is great information thank you.

Here's the equation from the article you linked: "A knockout is equivalent to the bounty in dollars divided by the amount that goes to the regular prize pool multiplied by the starting stack.For instance, in a knockout tournament featuring a $1,000 buy-in + $1,000 bounty, where starting stack is 5,000 in chips, eliminating a player is roughly equal to adding 5,000 to your stack.Apply This Number To All-In Hands and Other Pots You Play In.

Now that we have calculated how much the value of a bounty is, we can use this number to augment any pot where we’re setting up or calling an all-in. In an example where the bounty is worth 5,000 in chips, any time we have the chance to win a bounty, we can simply recalculate our pot odds as if there were an extra 5,000 in the pot." [End Quote]


So,correct me if Im wrong please, but in a 10 dollar hyper turbo ko on Stars, it's $4.57 into the bounty prize pool and $4.57 into the regular prize pool. In this case it's $4.57 divided by $4.57 = 1 x 500 chip starting stack = 500 chips? So, let's say button shoves 500 and Im in BB. Sb folds, pot is roughly 650, with 440 for me to call.(10 ante) So the article is saying add 500 to this pot, which would be 1150. 450 for me to win 1150 = 2.4: 1 means I need around 28% equity to call.

This seems like way too wide a range. Most hands have 28% equity against a loose button range no? Im thinking like 80+% hands have 28% equity against a 30-40 % button range? Can someone who is more math oriented than myself confirm this ?

Thanks alot

I think you did the math correctly - at least according to the article. That also might be the reason why this games are so swingy.

Lets take the same example and change the stack sizes:
Say BTN and you have with 5000 chips and have not collected any bounty so far (maybe near the bubble). Now the pot might be 6500 when he pushes. You still can only add 500 chips bounty wise, so now you need to call 5000 to win 7000. So now you need 41%.

As you can see the equity needed to make a mathematically correct call changes drastically.

Bump.

Can somoene else confirm that using this article's formula is correct?

If you are adding 500 chips to the pot for a ko, that means in these 18 man hyper turbo ko's you should be calling 80+% . Seems too loose.

I can't answer your question wrt the strategy, however, I feel like (and I may be wrong) there was a stable of pros who were playing beat the clock and lost over a large sample - and it was documented somewhere here on 2p2. So there's a nonzero chance that this game type simply can't be beat.

hyper turbo KOs, you might as well play lotto lol

and ofcourse pokerstars would release a game that can't be beat.

Look at all casino's, they release games all the time that can't be beat, how is PS any different?

All they care about is rake and giving degens what they want.. action, they couldn't care less if a game was beatable for grinders and regs

If you and da vinci were given 3 seconds to make a painting will he draw a better one than you? Sure but itll probably not be that much better. So to answer your question, sure they are beatable if you are good enough but if you are good enough odds are you can make better money playing a better structure

So, I found out about them a week or so ago and on a whim I started grinding them. I love short stack play, you can put in a lot of volume fast without making an 8 hour commitment.

So far, I ve played 600 or so. 10 and 25s. I highly doubt they are beatable especially the 25s. Right now my all in adjusted BB/100 is almost 8 which is insane if you consider that this is short-stacked hypers and the fact I often make -EV calls because of the bounty. Granted I am running bad and I am only winning 2 BB/100, but even on days when I run good and I win 11 BB/100, I still find myself losing.

I guess there's always room for improvement and getting some running good, but I am not sure it's enough.