Being on 20bb and with the bb also sitting on 20bb, you would assume any semi competent villain would shove their weaker Ax and suited broadways, along with small pocket pairs. Or do you still see medium strength hands 3b here often enough, to defend vs the 3b with a decent chunk of hands? What hands you willing to call pre?

PokerStars - 200/400 Ante 50 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 25,179 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP+2: 27,316 (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 63)
CO: 10,536 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 36)
Hero (BTN): 8,667
SB: 10,868 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
BB: 9,105 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
UTG: 10,000
UTG+1: 7,685 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP: 38,354 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)

9 players post ante of 50, SB posts SB 200, BB posts BB 400

Pre Flop: (pot: 1,050) Hero has T A

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 800, SB raises to 2,600, fold

im not sure if we can mess readless.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty I think

Typical V is very unbalanced here - I think it's an exploitative fold.

Jam preflop if you want to fold later pre.

What would you be jamming here?

I don't see how you can fold ATs there. Any villain with 1/4 of a brain will put you on a fairly wide steal and will 3bet lots of stuff that doesn't play well as a call (weaker Aces, unsuited Broadway hands, small-med pairs). He could be choosing the lower variance line (as opposed to shoving) with these hands so he can get away from them if you shove.

Could he have a big hand? Sure. But unless this is the bubble or there are major ICM considerations, I'd be shoving it in.

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^ What he said.

But yeah so often in these low MTTs people are 3betting so wide from the blinds against Late openers. Also agree the hand is to powerful to fold, plus you are at 20 BB

any reads on villain? Vs most I think I jam, vs nits I wouldn't be so sure.

I had been thinking TT+ AQ+ but on reflection this is very unbalanced and we don't have enough of a read on his 3 bet small range to fold ATs. Would rather shove than call.

To turn the hand around - with these stack sizes and readless I'd be interested to know what ranges people would a) jam b)3b /f c)3bc if in V's shoes

when he has a reshove stack he should be jamming in theory all his bluffs so when he 3bs with this stack it looks strong.

if hes 3b when the eff stacks are like 30bb I like a 4b jam alot more

That was my first instinct, which is exactly what makes it such a good play. He makes his hand look stronger and minimizes variance in case Hero has a big hand. Stacks are just at the size where it's a viable strategy.

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You can have some 3b/fold hands vs a button range though the only problem is they should include a lot of Ax hands.

in a $11 rebuy people are generally decent and is more approaching mid stakes then small.

The eff stacks here are 21bb. In theory he shouldn't have a 3b/f range vs us at all, thats why this move just appears strong to me

I feel like you can 3b to 5.5 blinds and fold sometimes cause you'd want to 3b/call sometimes too right as villain?

If villain is a very good reg/ or specific read that are a massive nit argument for folding
Otherwise vs 70% of the population I'm getting this in

i think reading too much into his sizing is pretty dangerous overall. if he thinks like most people itt it's probably the best bluffing spot ever because "it looks so strong". i think we can just rely on pot odds honestly. we get a decent price in pos with a strong suited broadway Ax combo in pos, id call.

It's hard to say readless how this villain splits his range. Some 3b/c 66 AJo here, some JJ+.

If we give him a range of 99+ AQ+, he'll need to have K2o-K3o as bluffs, or whatever villain uses for bluffs in this spot, if anything.


We're readless though, so probably just think about what range we're opening in this spot and how high up in our range ATs is and not fold. Flatting might be decent.

This isn't accurate, 20 combos of bluffs should be enough for us to 4b shove.

i disagree with this since having 3b fold range here is pbb great, it puts too many btn hands on very tough decision.

@op i close my eyes and 4b shove