Bit of a crazy hand. No reads on SB other two were massive whales. Not really sure what I was doing on the flop here. River is always a fold here with 100BB behind?

I am noob in poker and my english is bad but i will speak. Shouldn't bet flop probably because highly likely you are beaten. Odds that at least someone have an A preflop in full ring game like 85% as i recall. And on the river this huge overbet and your set is more like a bluff catcher here. Do you wanna put in line your good stack just to catch a bluff? So its a gamble situation for me that don't worth a risk.

3 bet pre? I guess it was a limp raise but players could be doing it with worse holdings, something to maybe consider and as played flop bet is fine I'd probably do the same, the river is ridiculous like what else is he doing this with besides a back door flush, the question is how did he get to the river with 2 clubs in his hand, KQcc? Tough spot for me time let itgo maybe other people could do it or if he was tight.

Eurgh - river is brutal because he's screaming "I have a flush but I also have no idea what I'm doing so I'm all in" but at the same time it's pretty hard for us to have a flush because we'd double barrel a lot of our flush draw combos, so we're effectively at the top of our range. And it's also hard for him to have a flush that he limp called pre and then somehow calls an ace high flop.

I honestly don't know what I'd do here, I probably end up calling and just getting ready to reg something else if they have it - but I really just find it hard to come up with a better hand that we get to the river with.

Edit: upon reading that your read on villain is that he's a whale I think we have to almost snap river and expect him to show up with all sorts of shenanigans. If SB is solid he's probably leading hands that beat us OTR because not enough tourney regs check raise in spots like this with the nuts, so once he checks I like our hand even more

Flop: 4way in a 3b pot it’s highly unlike someone doesn’t have an Ax hand and I’m not even sure you can get original 3better to fold his JJ+ with such a small bet so your just lighting money on fire with this bet and probably heavily over bluffing this spot if you bet 99.


As for the river, I think it’s a pretty trivial call with the Ac being on the board and you being so high up in your range. The only club hands that really make sense to call are something like 75c as something like KQc is a damn optimistic call on this kind of board. However, it’s a 3bet pot and if he shows up with such garbage as 75c I don’t think we can give him credit for always having the goods in a spot where so much weakness is shown.

Thanks guys I had to go with my online read here and decided to fold because:

A) Had not seen him do a massive overshove as a bluff previously (and as he played every hand this was over a decent sample) but had seen him bet big for value.
B) Other hands that he had nothing or not much he had checked called river or bet tiny amounts.
C) He was a whale for playing every hand and being a calling station, not for doing massive punts/bluffs.

Had I not had that read its definitely a call I think, with the ace being out there and us being at the top of our range.

Yes I think it's a fold - based on the player type and the action - limp /callers are normally playing weak hands - such as any 2 suited cards - in the hope of connecting with the board and getting paid off when they do - for this kind of player the Ac on the board is not so important as they can do this with any cc hand.

I agree with comments above - better to check flop

Ok I don't know if I'm reading this hand wrong, or you guys are, but this is not a 3bet pot...

OP: your flop bet is awful, especially in a multiway pot. Stop doing this sort of stuff. I'd rather see you do this with QJ or 76, if at all.

I think you need to call the river. The combination of hands that beat you are tiny - 4Xcc, 3Xcc, 65cc, 75cc, 76cc, and the extremely unlikely AA. That's about it.

Also, Villain has some AJ type of hands in his range, a ton of 2pair combos (T9s comes to mind), slowplayed sets, missed straight draws, and the very rare random bluff.

I don't think I ever fold here without an extremely specific and repeated read. If you call and (probably) win, you gain a 46k stack

you think that V can get to the river with T9s ( 1 combo) but discount most of the combos?

I can see that value range that beats us should be small (although some players are loose enough to call very weak draws to a small flop bet) but the value range that we beat seems smaller - how many players would play 44 or 33 or flopped 2 pair this way - or AJ?? I could get behind A9 ( but only 3 combos) possibly AT - but even there it would be odd to overshove with the potential for either of you to have a flush. The bluffing range for many players is non-existent.

Sorry, I meant to say "ATs comes to mind" not T9s.

I haven't plugged this into an equilator yet, but I'd imagine the value and bluff ranges are close at worst. Against the combined range, we should have good equity.

As for how many players would play a set or strong Ax this way? Or what kind of bluff range a villain can have here? OP gives no reads other than that MP1 is a massive whale, and this is a $10 tourney. Slowplays and illogical bluffs are commonplace. Players overvalue top pair strong kicker when deep, turn random hands into bluffs, chase very weak draws.

This flop texture is an ideal slowplay spot for 33 and 44. Villain could have been taking a check/call check/raise line, and when he didn't get it, went for maximum value on the river. He might have also turned or rivered 2pair and wants value, believing that the BDF is unlikely.

I think folding sets in these situations is a losing play long term.

Again, I haven't crunched any numbers, this is just my 2c

I don't mind the call, but you clearly probably lose.

In an alternate universe where it were possible to remove the pot going into the river, 0% of people would buy this hand & spot from OP.

Why are we betting flop here? It doesn't accomplish much to be honest, we never get called by worse and better never folds. Multiway in a raised pot someone is likely to have an ace and we might as well take the free card on offer when we run the risk of being x/r off our draw by betting.

Generally speaking, im fine with playing the middle of our range for SDV/bluff catcher purposes and only betting the tips of our range.

I dont think we can fold river when he has flopped sets as part of a value jamming range (wider coz bounty). Also wheel straights are fairly unlikely given he limp/called preflop. That only leaves backdoor possibilities and AA (but he often opens or limp/3b AA multiway deep), He shouldn't have TT often given he called flop (but spazzy whale anything is possible I guess), its just running clubs which is the main part of his range that beats us imo and this is so small its fairly trivial