Have been lurking, feel I should try to add something to the forum (some people's purpose in life is to serve as an example).

Played in the MSPT Seniors this week; so a bunch of old people sitting around playing cards. We're just before the end of level 8 (and a break, where registration ends, if that's important). Blinds 600/1200/1200. Effective stack is me, ~33K.

I think I have a somewhat nitty image. Haven't been card dead, but haven't played a huge number of hands. When I've gotten to showdown, have shown strength. Some c/fing as nothing materialized, but not too active. On the personality side, has talked about average with tablemates.

V1 (UTG): Just came to the table a little bit ago. Seems like a jovial sort, decent player in that little bit. Shared his box of Altoids with the table, then joked about microdosing us. Medium stack, has me covered but not huge.
V2 (MP): Pretty big stack. Has been building all day. Calling all limps and normal opens pre, has folded to 3! pre or aggression post, but somewhat sticky. Pretty quiet, but has joined in the conversation a little.
Me: As described above, I'm in HJ IIRC.
V3 (BTN): Biggest stack, has really been running hot, but also playing well (i.e., not 'any two cards and hitting,' but getting legit hands and playing them well). Also seemed like a good player and sociable guy.

Anyway, V1 opens to 3K, V2 calls. I look down at AThh and shove.

Not sure if I should put thought process here, so I'll spoiler that and results.

Thoughts:



Results:

In most tournaments (I only play live now) I assume that UTG opens are fairly tight unless they are a GTO player. In senior tournaments even moreso.

I have stopped 3-betting with AQ vs UTG raises pre-flop. Similarly with TT/JJ. Unless of course the player is LAG and has been raising a bit from EP.

Because there was a caller if I 3-bet with a larger stack it would probably be for 12k which would be close to 40% of our actual stack. So if I were going to raise pre-flop it would be a shove.

Given we have ATs I think I would either call or fold (probably call).

Now I'm going to read about what happened...

I love this move against LP opens and calls, but not against EP. Happy to call behind and see a flop here.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

Yeah, I think this is pretty much right. Unless you have reason to think the first two villains are pretty wide, their ranges are probably too strong to shove against. It's not even a bad move if they're playing GTO-optimal, but either of those things seem to be unlikely in a seniors event. And then on top of that, you still have four more hands behind you whose strength you have no idea about. I think even if it's HJ/CO and you shove from BT it's much more defensible.

I don't know if this is a good idea, but thinking about it, if you 3-bet to 9k it would look incredibly strong and give you a way out if someone wakes up with a monster. Not the sort of thing you'd want to do if 88/99 are going to rip it in, but with the strength of the EP ranges and the unknowns remaining in the hand, it makes some sense-- you'd be wasting your hand if you got 4-bet, but on the other hand I don't think you're getting 4-bet by even a flipping hand, let alone a hand that you dominate. And it's a big win if you fold out UTG's AJ/AQ.

All that said, I think flatting is fine, and likely better on the whole-- the probable strength of the UTG range plus the unknown hands behind just make it seem like a really slim probability you'll get a 3-bet of any size through.

Thanks for the responses, all. I agree, made the wrong play due to a combination of some boredom tilt and overestimating how much opponents would see me as tight/"must have a monster".

Haven't read the spoilers, but seems like a very easy IP call pf. If one of the blinds squeezes/3! and then OR responds, we can't fold fast enough at very little cost to possibly play a hand that does nicely multi-way.

Hey Rick, curious what your specifically ranging the open for?

Do you expect to see 55, A8s, ATo, KJo, QTs, T9s here? Or do you expect those to be folded pre?

I really don't expect to see any of those hands in a Senior tournament opening UTG (unless I have a mirror and I'm looking at me, though I don't ever open ATo UTG and rarely open KJo).

In fairness there usually is one guy at the table who just turned 50 who is either GTO or more likely just massively aggro (a LAG). Then you can see 55/QTs/ATo sometimes maybe KJo though I don't see a lot of A8s. T9s is a possibility too.

Much more frequently these are the type of hands that get limped EP.

I would range the open at TT+/AQ+/KQs/AJs sometimes 99/KQ/AJ.

Funny thing is guys limp 88 all the time and then when somebody shoves they rarely fold.

FWIW, I V1 was probably mid-late sixties, long hair, long beard, hockey jersey. As mentioned earlier, seemed like a jovial sort.

I put him on (perhaps overly optimistically) a little wider than Rick. 88+, A9s+, and the bigger nonsuited As. Maybe some broadways too.

V2 I figured was trying to hit a flop with a pretty wide range. As mentioned, he'd been calling most every non-3! flop.

But really, it was me trying to take advantage of my image more than "they have hands worse than mine." I like all the arguments here, should've been a call/fold if there was a raise behind me. Next time for sure!

Thanks again for all the ideas, I appreciate the discussion.

I've seen AK limp there as well, certainly 99-JJ too.

This was quite an over-ambitious play, especially against an early-opener AND a call. ATs has the potential to play very well multi-way, so a CALL would have been good (considering no one 3-Bets behind). Being in the late with this holding is another advantage that you have also.

You mentioned your image, yet V1 JUST came to the table... So how would he know your image? ... Just a friendly reminder, to use your image the other players have to be “observant”, a pro, or people that have played with you on a regular basis.