I've been debating this with my home game friends. In a hand where you decide to make a river bluff, what is your strategy (if you even think about it) about timing tells for your muck when you get re-raised or called?

Say you have KQss. You raise from early position and get called by the button. On a flop of AT6ss, you check/call the button's half-pot c-bet. Turn is 2d. You check and the button checks back. River is 6c. You decide that the button's betting pattern suggests a weak ace or maybe a ten and you decide to bluff the river with a 3/4 pot bet.

Button raises.

You will fold. But, how fast you fold is a tell. If you immediately toss your cards you are conceding that you were bluffing, even if you don't show the cards. If you think about it for 30 seconds and then reluctantly slide your cards over the line, you are giving the impression: "OK, if you have it, then you're good, and if you're bluffing me, then nice bluff."

I say that it matters. I want to take my time and make the guy think that I think he successfully bluffed me -- and that he could successfully bluff me in the future. I also want to tell all the players at the table that I had a legitimate hand and that I'm making a conservative fold in order to induce them all to try to bluff me on future hands. I'm going to use that to allow me to (a) bluff more; and (b) make thin calls if I think somebody is trying to bluff me on in a later hand.

Some of my buddies think that it's better to telegraph that you were bluffing and quickly muck to demonstrate that you are CAPABLE of running a bluff in that spot so that you get more calls in later hands when you have the nuts.

What do you think?

I think its an interesting point you are making.

Ultimately if I believe people think I am under-bluffing then I would fold immediately. If I believe that my image is one of over-bluffing then I would hesitate and look like I have a decent A but am not sure if I should call.

But if I know that I am a balanced bluffer I think it then depends on what I think of the observant players at the table. If I want to be bluffing against them in the future then I would want to make it look like I have an A. But if I want them to call my bets in the future then I would fold as quickly as possible.

If I’m playing well then I already know what my next move is if someone raises/shoves on me. If that next move is to fold then I fold very quickly everytime. Trying to balance that timing is too much mental energy wasted when it really doesn’t matter. Not to mention wasting time. Imo when I turbo muck, if someone thinks it’s because I was weak/bluffing then that’s fine by me. I play a very aggressive style so that plays into my image and ultimately may induce some spazz from weaker players who aren’t on my strategic level. Of course there may be some rare situations where you don’t want it to be so obvious you were bluffing. Save those for super critical times like at FTs.

I never want to encourage bluff raises on rivers in any game I've ever played. River raises are so unbalanced that it is easy to fold with all but the nuts. That means any bluffs they have will print against me. Why should I encourage that?

If you are playing some huge game with all regs who are GTO sound, go ahead and try to balance your timing tells. If not, just fold smoothly, and move on to the next hand.

This, mostly. Unless you're playing really good, experienced players, worrying about things like mucking timing tells is a waste of energy.

From an etiquette point of view, it should be quick. I think anything more than 10 seconds is rude, if you know you are going to fold.

Why tank for a minute and fold and waste everyone’s time because you think they will remember this one hand that you didn’t show? (They won’t).

If you generally act quickly and do things to make the game more efficient, no one will bitch if you have a real decision and tank. Worrying about Timing tells is a waste of energy and everyone's time.

I do think, its important to take at least a few seconds before folding, so that its not completely obvious, that you were bluffing. Its not about making people think one or the other, but more about keeping them guessing. There is no need to overdo it though, and for me 30 seconds is definitely bordering on that.