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Warmup - How to play KK here

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11-02-2009 , 08:44 PM

Habsfan09

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,551

We were already itm but I'am pretty new to the table. The problem is I am not sure whats the best way to play my hand now. After I saw the openraise I thought about what to do? Imo a 3bet to 40k looks so strong because its a third of my stack but I wasn't really sure if a shove is so much better? Or would somebody consider just to call?

No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3000/6000 Blinds (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t76566)
UTG+1 (t175351)
MP1 (t384262)
MP2 (t122026)
MP3 (t131409)
CO (t386563)
Button (t88046)
Hero (SB) (t127744)
BB (t306910)

Hero's M: 14.19

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

1 fold, UTG+1 bets t16000, 5 folds, Hero ?

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11-02-2009 , 08:47 PM

SGT RJ

Twitching

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49,109

Having a read would help, but really I think the only bad play here would be to fold, which no one is ever doing anyway. Since it's highly likely you would be HU, I don't mind a flat if you can play post flop well, although being OOP is never optimal. If you knew the BB was the type to try to squeeze this would be an excellent time to flat. My default, however, is just to make a standard 3 bet to 45K or so, and of course to call a shove. I also sometimes "donk" shove here to try to induce a hero call, but I'd like a read for that. I'd advocate to play it with the standard line.

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11-02-2009 , 08:48 PM

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

Raise it to 38,500 call any shove obv... Never calling here, your losing so much value if you flat and the board scares villian...

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11-02-2009 , 08:50 PM

Thamel18

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,211

I just shove. We are readless, and justifying calling or a 3-bet to ~40k is difficult to do without having played some hands with the opener (or knowing him or him knowing us.). I'd want a passive and loose image to do this (calling), such as making a marginal call of a shove. I'd want to see that UTG+1 protected his raises or was loose overall before 3betting to ~40K, and I'd also want us to have shown a bad looking 3-bet or shove. We can just lose so much value if the cards don't come right, so get the money in before they do IMO.

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11-02-2009 , 08:55 PM

Markulous

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,530

3-betting to ~45000 allows the villain to make many more mistakes rather then if you shoved. He may flat with hands that he'd of otherwise folded to a shove, or spazz shove hands he'd of folded as well.

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11-02-2009 , 08:58 PM

aces_full1963

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,972

I would 3 bet too. Shoving isnt horrible but I would prefer 3 betting and hoping villain shoves.

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11-02-2009 , 09:02 PM

Loretta8

knows her Big Ten

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 21,899

i'd just ship it, although 3-betting small is ok too.

def don't flat, would like that play better if villain were opening in late position and is more likely to fold to a shove, you lose a ton of value not getting it in vs an EP open

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11-02-2009 , 09:36 PM

jchauvin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,761

against a good player shove

against clowns make it 41k

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11-02-2009 , 10:14 PM

X Trip X

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 124

you're all crazy. that's an ep raise. fold pre

seriously...i like the 3bet 40k to 45k and call a 4bet shove. if they flat the 3bet shove any flop

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11-02-2009 , 10:32 PM

#10

mc4chess

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,661

i think flatting is pretty good here AND OBV 3 bet calling is fine.

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11-02-2009 , 10:46 PM

#11

Sydney_Says

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,111

3 bet to 41,950 and call a shove obv.

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11-02-2009 , 10:50 PM

#12

Bigjor

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 363

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchauvin

against a good player shove

against clowns make it 41k

This!

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11-02-2009 , 11:30 PM

#13

DestructionField

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjor

This!

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11-03-2009 , 03:58 AM

#14

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

prolly a shove as well vs a bad player who is tight from UTG and wont lay down ~AQ / 99 who will get away too cheap OTF

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11-03-2009 , 04:06 AM

#15

PageUp

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc4chess

i think flatting is pretty good here AND OBV 3 bet calling is fine.

this.

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11-03-2009 , 06:58 AM

#16

bleffo19

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4,531

readless i'm 3-betting to ~40-44k and obv snap-calling a shove. jam the flop.

with reads it would change tho. we could flat here if we know he likes to cbet, but it's kinda risky. we could also open-shove.

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11-03-2009 , 07:10 AM

#17

westhoff

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17,155

I can't believe so many people are saying 3bet. Any sane player is going to realize you're pot-committed with a 3-bet. I'm shoving here almost every time without a read. With a good read on villian I'm def flatting here a lot too. Unless you have a read the guy is clueless I think 3betting is the worst option by far.

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11-03-2009 , 10:52 AM

#18

disbeliever

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 263

I would never flat here.Jam or 3 bet!

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