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TT standard shove?

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11-19-2008 , 09:53 PM

RandomGuy2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,179

OR 25/16 over 40 hands
first caller 42/13 over 38
second caller 34/0 over 38 hands

Poker Stars $25.00+$2.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: t7399
MP2: t5739
CO: t2999
BTN: t2650
Hero (SB): t5565
BB: t2344
UTG: t4830
UTG+1: t5274
UTG+2: t2879

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is SB with T

2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t300, MP1 calls t300, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t5565 all in???

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11-19-2008 , 10:05 PM

earck

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,981

Eeeek, i don't like it. I am either looking to play a small pot or making an isolation raise, but definitely not all in.

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11-19-2008 , 10:10 PM

pukerz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,382

Not standard for me.. I probably flatcall, but not sure if that's best

If you 3bet smaller (to 1200-1500) you are commited to call UTG+2 shove, where you're flipping at best. If UTG+2 folds and one of the donks flat (lol), then you can shove alot of flops and take down a nice pot.

If you shove pre, UTG+2's calling range has you crushed.. but you have alot of FE

interesting spot

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11-19-2008 , 10:15 PM

Domesticllama

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 336

Raise....but don't shove. Why would you shove here? I assume because you're scared to play this post flop. I'd make it 1500-1799 to go. Preferably use a number that is a palindrome.

Also @pukerz....don't contemplate not raising because you would be committed into calling a shove. That's a terrible way to play poker.

Edit: I forgot to comment on how much of a station the 2 callers are. Also, it's not an iso raise at all earck. I have no idea why you called it this. If he was supremely shortstacked it would be, but he isn't...

Last edited by Domesticllama; 11-19-2008 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Forgot Stuffz

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11-19-2008 , 10:57 PM

pukerz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,382

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domesticllama

Also @pukerz....don't contemplate not raising because you would be committed into calling a shove. That's a terrible way to play poker.

How is trying to predict the action and having a plan a terrible way to play poker?

Anyway, let's just do the math:

If you shove, assuming:
- the donks are folding and only UTG+2 is calling
- UTG+2 is raising 10% (66+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo)
- UTG+2 is calling a shove with 4% (TT+,AQs+,AKo)

FE = 0.6 * 1050 = 630
call/you win = 0.14 * 11780 = 1649
call/you lose = 0.26 * -5565 = -1447

So looks like the shove is +832 cEV
dunno whether of not this is better than flatting or raising smaller/calling shove

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11-19-2008 , 11:14 PM

natchobvious

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 220

i dunno, i think UTG+2 could show up with an overpair a decent portion of the time. at the very least, i think you're gonna end up flipping with one of these guys - not the best use of 55 BB. as deep as you and most of the other guys are, i think you can flat and evaluate on the flop.

if you do 3-bet though, it's gotta be a shove. wouldn't want to get 3 callers OOP with a vulnerable hand. so IMO shoving is the second best play.

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