Relatively reggy/smaller field 4.4.

Note that neither I nor CO can reopen the action after UTG puts the rest in.

CO is one of those small stakes Brazilian Pocarr players. He snap shipped, does that mean anything? Then I went into the tank...


PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 6 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 186.06 BB (VPIP: 27.59, PFR: 20.69, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 30)
MP: 75.9 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 15.15, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 34)
Hero (MP+1): 72.58 BB
CO: 55.04 BB (VPIP: 27.36, PFR: 18.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 107)
BTN: 76.34 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
SB: 58.16 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 33)
BB: 55.56 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG: 20.46 BB (VPIP: 21.21, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 33)

8 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.46 BB) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to 4.5 BB, UTG+1 calls 4.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13 BB, CO calls 13 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to 20.34 BB and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 7.34 BB, CO calls 7.34 BB

Flop: (67.98 BB, 3 players) 8 2 J
Hero checks, CO bets 34.58 BB and is all-in, fold

No

Even if the ranges are pretty conservative, you still have PLENTY of equity to get in.

I'm just jamming this pre once UTG has gone all in. Once in a while they have aces and kings, I think its far more likely they have hands like tens or Jacks or AJ-AK here. If he is a thinking player this is a really awful spot to flat AA or KK here with UTG being so short.

Don’t think the all-in re-opens the betting as the sizing is too small. I think we can fold our AK OTF (except AdKd). Not folding QQ+.

Absolute mess.

Make it at least 16-18bb for your first raise. Then reshove over UTG shove. If not then as played gii happily otf.

...and I don't think we want to size down enough to be able to do this.

I did consider the implications or allowing UTG to reopen. Decided that I was relatively happy with playing a bloated flop with QQ multiway but would have felt differently about AK. Would you size down with AK, even though that would encourage the nightmare of UTG flatting instead of jamming?

What makes this a bad spot to flat AA-KK (first time) in your opinion? I think if he truly considered the spot, he could fold hands as good as AKo and TT/JJ.

UTG 4x, should be strong and was never folding. I'd been active but vill is a reg and should know I'm not messing about when I 3b. Certainly AJ/AQ would be an atrocious flat.

I think it's a great spot for AA-KK to flat in the CO as a raise just looks so damn strong and we want to encourage action from UTG and he would be more likely to fold if you 4bet here as a CO. It also kind of have a nice bonus that it kind of protect our range in this spot even though it's not really something I'm concerned with.

I don't really see how we get away from this on the flop as the pot is just too big and we can't really discount hands such as AQs+, TT+ from CO which makes this just a mandatory Jam on the flop.

Would he ever pay off with worse v a jam?

I checked out of a respect for the strength of his range. I'm never jamming AK non diamonds so not sure what incentive he has to pay off. Is your mandatory jam for protection?

So, maybe I missed something (am new to this). But bearer, you ended up folding right? #1: I dont get the title of the post and #2: How did villain show down with? AA, KK or JJ?

3 bet pre is too small. But you're burning money if you're folding in this spot as played.

What are the benefits of a bigger 3bet?

Yeah folded.

May post result later but they rarely matter.

Rip it pre

Jam pre or flop. You got no reason to fold that flop. If he had AA or KK he probably jams preflop. So you can likely rule that out but even so his range is AA, KK, QQ, 88 (not likely with PF action and multi-way unless he never fold pocket pairs preflop) AKd, AQd, QKd, JJ, TJ, AJ, and I wouldn’t rule out his middle pairs since you checked the flop. May of thought you missed and wanted to protect TT-99.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's kind of a mix between value and protection. I'm not expecting worse to call much but the pot is kind of too big at this point as I believe his range could be TT+,AQs+,AKo. I might be wrong about this specific player. It's always hard to tell, as some players call to many hands and others get to lose and never traps AA etc. This player seems solid from the information you have given and I think TT+,AQs+,AKo is a solid range to call here even though I'm certainly not trapping KK at a 100% frequency etc even though I would have it in my trap range.


Also seriously guys why would you ever RiP it pre for this many blinds??

They are meaning jam pre once UTG has rejammed allin

I know the results usually don't matter but going from the title of the post I thought you didn't get off of them and then lost. And in that sense it would be interesting to know what villain had. Going from the call preflop and the allin on the flop and all other action, I would say AJ is his most probable holding.

Anyhow, my idea of the hand would indeed be that preflop, you're better off raising bigger to isolate the small stack raiser. If he turns up with AA or KK preflop, bad luck, but it won't cost you your stack. I think the bigger bet also helps eliminate callers preflop with weaker holdings, but if they do call to a flop you still have the initiative to c-bet and have them fold their non-hitting hands and have them call you down with AJ, KJ type hands.
I think with the amount of action from UTG and UTG+1 and MP player, if the CO is holding anything better than QQ, he would be shoving right there and not wait for a flop.
As played, on a flop like that, I would certainly continue to bet just to protect the value of my hand as the preflop raiser and having an overpair to the board.
My thoughts...

That seems a reasonable.

I think this is mostly good. While I think that fancier regs may trap KK+, given the action of a chunky utg open and a 3bet from me, there is alot of value in getting KK+ in pre in this spot as many small stakes players evaluate the strength of their hand in a vacuum (if it's good enough to 3b v utg its good enough to stack off v anybody!). He'd seen/experienced me run a few plays though so he may have given me credit for not necessarily blindly stacking off v any action.

Given that my action looks strong, I don't see the merit of 3betting bigger to get weaker holding to fold. Firstly, the action alone should act as a deterrent. Secondly, I don't mind if weaker hands don't fold, I have the 3rd nuts pre. Finally, the open size was huge and I don't want to be seen to be committing myself to my hand with a huge 3bet, I want players behind to know I have 3bet/folds v a cold 4bet, that is what gives them incentive to 4bet bluff (eg. AKo). Obviously a 4bet bluff would be nasty but its a whole lot better than opponents behind being able to happily cold 4 KK+ only knowing I'm committed as I want to be able to profitably stack off here often v further action because I haz queens. Any 3bet commits me to stack off v UTG alone that's a given.

AJ would be a very poor and surprising flat imo. If he showed up with that that would disprove my ranging of him and would be a useful result but he showed up with a hand which doesn't prove much. UTG did surprise me.


PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 6 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 186.06 BB (VPIP: 27.59, PFR: 20.69, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 30)
MP: 75.9 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 15.15, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 34)
Hero (MP+1): 72.58 BB
CO: 55.04 BB (VPIP: 27.36, PFR: 18.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 107)
BTN: 76.34 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
SB: 58.16 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 33)
BB: 55.56 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG: 20.46 BB (VPIP: 21.21, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 33)

8 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.46 BB) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to 4.5 BB, UTG+1 calls 4.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13 BB, CO calls 13 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to 20.34 BB and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 7.34 BB, CO calls 7.34 BB

Flop: (67.98 BB, 3 players) 8 2 J
Hero checks, CO bets 34.58 BB and is all-in, fold

Turn: (67.98 BB, 2 players) K

River: (67.98 BB, 2 players) 9

UTG shows J T (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 20%, Flop 25%, Turn 12%)
CO shows A A (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 80%, Flop 75%, Turn 88%)
CO wins 67.98 BB

OK, so now you're just showing off! Titling the post "is there any getting away..." then giving us the trasnpscript in which you actually did get away with them, and now you show us that the villain had AA all along...

Why you little....

Any how, awesome lay down. And good to see that people like you exist and lay that down.

Thanks but the fact he had AA doesn't prove the fold was good if he would play weaker hands the same way. I like the fold if his range is JJ+, if you add AQ+ then I like it less, add AJ and it's poor.

Sure, but with the preflop action AJ is unlikely and AQ would take a different line on the flop. So I’d think it unlikely him to play weaker hands in that way at that stage for that many chips.

A lot of villians would play AQ and or AK diamonds the exact same way. As well as JJ. How can you say villian wouldn't play it that way.

Utg 4.5x is strong, you should flat QQ and allow other players to jam with weaker hands. U don’t crush a 4.5x utg range so just play IP, if u 3bet and get 4bet h generally hate your life so it’s not a great spot