What would be the biggest possible effective stack for a 3bet to be better than a call?

The problem is you almost never have much better than 50% equity after he raises and sometimes much worse than 50%. So even with a much shorter stack it's better to get it in on a blank turn than on the flop.

Poker Stars $1.00/$2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $196.00
UTG: $151.55
MP: $188.35
CO: $310.25
Hero (BTN): $200.00
SB: $252.70

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 7 6
2 folds, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $10, SB calls $9, 1 fold, CO calls $8

Flop: ($32.00) 8 5 2 (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $22, SB folds, CO calls $22

Turn: ($76.00) 2 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($76.00) T (2 players)
CO bets $35, Hero raises to $168 all in

ok villain just sat down and has been limp/calling/folding the flop.

turn i don't think theres a reason to double barrel, as not much is going to go away.

the river my thought process was this: villain can't call unless he has some form of the nuts 88/55/22/2x/TT. the only information that villain has given me before the hand is that he limp/folds stuff. i feel i can include lots of flush draws in his range after he calls the flop, not as many as i would like as i do have the 7c. after he bets the river his bet looked like a busted flush draw trying to steal.

I'd include A8,A5,99,77 hands also as a large chunk of his range. I kind of worry because he sounds like a bit of a calling station, and what is our rule about bluffing and calling stations? Anyway, I'm not sure he'll be able to convince himself you have the nuts, which is about all you're representing with that line, and thus call with a much weaker hand than your effective nuts range.

Bengie,
You aren't repping anything.

hand 1.


Poker Stars $1.00/$2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $204.25
SB: $305.30
Hero (BB): $200.00
UTG: $138.85
CO: $193.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 7 K
3 folds, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $10, SB calls $8

Flop: ($20.00) K 6 Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($20.00) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB raises to $33, Hero calls $21

River: ($86.00) 5 (2 players)
SB bets $77, Hero calls $77

literally my first hand at the table


hand2.


Poker Stars $1.00/$2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $278.85
Hero (BTN): $200.00
SB: $196.00
BB: $385.20
UTG: $210.65
MP: $62.40

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with A 8
3 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6

Flop: ($17.00) 8 2 2 (2 players)
BB bets $16, Hero calls $16

Turn: ($49.00) T (2 players)
BB bets $32, Hero calls $32

River: ($113.00) T (2 players)
BB bets $60, Hero calls $60


vill is 64/9 over insignificant sample. no real reads on him, he's been donking

Villain is 13/7/2/ over 100 hands. I know this now, but not sure I new this at the time, I don't think I did since this was early in todays session.

My line ok, if I did not know stats? What if I new stats?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($33.10)
Hero ($25)
MP1 ($4.45)
MP2 ($24.90)
MP3 ($10.85)
CO ($29.95)
Button ($16.30)
SB ($22.10)
BB ($10.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q, Q.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 4 folds, Button calls $1.25, SB calls $1.15, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($5.25) 3, 8, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $1, Hero raises to $4, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls $3.

Turn: ($13.25) 7 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $10, UTG raises to $20, Hero calls $9.75 (All-In).

River: ($52.75) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $52.75

Deep, one of the first hands at the table, is suicide standard here?

Full Tilt Poker $0.75/$1.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $548.50
BB: $197.95
UTG: $302.25
MP: $328.85
Hero (CO): $317.95
BTN: $103.60

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with 2 2
UTG raises to $6, MP calls $6, Hero calls $6, 2 folds, BB calls $4.50

Flop: ($24.75) 2 4 7 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $16, MP raises to $49.50, Hero calls $49.50, BB folds, UTG raises to $177

Yup, I pretty much said exactly this right after the hand. I'm pretty hard on myself when it comes to poker and I know better than to think a player who can handread is going to be calling with AT/AJ when I shove turn here. It was just a case of me not putting enough focus into a hand while playing so many tables which is pretty weak and basically just lighting money on fire.

Also, I just finished up a 20hr/15k hand session just so I could break even for the night at 50nl (lol). Dropped 800 in less than two hours, 12 BIs coming from set over set/KK vs AA/ or set vs fd and flush draws apparently don't like to lose to players named jmill. Easily the worst patch of soul crushing variance I've experienced. Oh and I dropped 3 of them to one player who was running 88/30 and calling everyone "son". aslkfjasdklfjadsklfjadskfh

AL, if you read this, we are at war and I am going to stack you soon as you were at least partly responsible for my night of hell. I do like your avatar though.

Hands that got me out of the red finally.

Beat: 50 NL
Brag: Nope

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Tokuan (UTG): $47.00
Hero (CO): $181.30
Ocall (BTN): $49.25
THIGTROPE (SB): $49.75
BooYaBase22 (BB): $76.40

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A A
Tokuan raises to $2, Hero raises to $5.50, Ocall calls $5.50, 1 fold, BooYaBase22 calls $5, Tokuan calls $3.50

Flop: ($22.25) 8 K 5 (4 players)
BooYaBase22 bets $15, Tokuan folds, Hero raises to $161.50, Ocall folds, BooYaBase22 calls $55.90 all in

Turn: ($164.05) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($164.05) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)




Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

swishes2000 (MP): $50.00
Tokuan (CO): $58.70
Hero (BTN): $265.20
MR3OOOVR4 (SB): $16.70
THIGTROPE (BB): $88.00
foshomaho (UTG): $59.95

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q Q
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, THIGTROPE calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 7 T Q (2 players)
THIGTROPE checks, Hero bets $2.50, THIGTROPE calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.25) 7 (2 players)
THIGTROPE checks, Hero bets $5, THIGTROPE raises to $10, Hero calls $5

River: ($28.25) 5 (2 players)
THIGTROPE checks, Hero bets $20, THIGTROPE raises to $40, Hero raises to $251.20 all in, THIGTROPE calls $34 all in

I think that there are too many hands posted in a row. Maybe we should wait for the discussion to dry out before posting new hands?

Yeah.

Not to single you out because there are certainly others doing the same thing, but I noticed that in this whole thread you don't respond to anyone else's hands and your only posts are either HHs or responses to responses on your HHs. Now the problem with this is that you will learn a lot more from spelling out your thought process as a response to someone else's hands and allowing futuredoc or whoever to berate and shape your thinking.

Jmill this isn't the **** thread or BBV. We're in here to learn or help others. This isn't the appropriate place to post brags or whatever.

That said the AA v AK hand you posted, your 3bet is too small, especially since you're 150BBs deep.

I think I check behind on the turn since a ton of an UTG limping range has a set or 2pair, the only draw he can really have is 76, and unless he's completely ******ed there isn't much to get value from.

Edit: This advice given with the nittiness of .5/1 full ring tables in mind.

Gross. I think bottom set probably should be a fold here, but I don't think I could actually do it in game.

I think this might be a cultural difference but I think that your post is immature and ridiculous.

My intension was not being a leech. I just felt like my skills are in the bottom 2% of this thread and really couldnt help anyone with my "advices". On the other hand I have tried to post hands that are difficult for a player who has switched from STTs to cash. Even though they are from a lower limit the "rules" apply to the higher stakes. I feel I'm only entitled to reply in my own HHs since I started them but feel like I'd be toxicating this thread if I replied to other people's hands. I have tried to help people in the uNL forum where I feel like my skills are high enough.

Giving advices and making a big noise of yourself when you don't have the skills = mortal sin for me. I do think of the hands posted in here but I don't write my thoughts in replys.

Yeah I thought you might take my post the wrong way. I certainly wasn't intending to call you a leech. I just meant that I think there is a lot more to be gained from laying your thought processes out whether they are right or wrong and giving opportunity for strong players to comment on them.

I've basically always posted like that, laying out my thoughts, and I learn the most whenever a better player has berated me or caused me to question my line of thinking. That way of posting may not be optimal for you, I was just trying to express my opinion on the best way to learn poker concepts.

Edit: The "Yeah" at the top of my post was agreeing that it seems like there are 4 hands posted for every 1 reply.

Yes it seems I misunderstood your message. Sorry for that.

Point taken.

Puke. What did MP do?

Call/call all-in seems far superior to pushing over everyone though. I'm starting to think if you play it the way you did, you can call because they'll both have overpairs enough of the time getting 2:1.

kleath i have no idea how deep tables on FTP play relative to 100bb games, but at a normal (100bb) table that just happened to have several 200bb stacks im folding if MP calls or shoves and calling all the way if MP folds

Ya I agree with FD, UTG can really easily have AA or KK, etc. because it's the nuts and nobody folds them. Also I wouldn't necessarily play deep tables people like to think the deeper the game the bigger the edge they have, but that starts having marginal returns and when you start getting really deep you need to regularly be able to make big folds.

Bengie
Hand 1,
I would bet/fold the flop as played I don't think the call down is bad because a lot of people bluff because you can't be strong once you check the turn and a lot of the hands that are beating you would raise pre of not call a pfr. I would like some sort of reads thoughs.

Hand 2
I probably raise the flop and get it in vs. a flush draw or J8 or something. As played you need to be good like 25% of the time and he is making stupid blockers enough with like 77 or 8x to call.

I agree with Blackize in general and it isn't just this thread. Every STT thread goes like this player X posts a hand 8 different posters say shove, fold, shove, shove, shove, fold, shove, fold, fold. There is no discussion and once people disagree there is not intelligent discourse. Note i said bengie, you aren't repping anything and nobody else responded. Is my word the gospel or something? Does everyone get exactly what I am saying because they can read my mind? This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but more of a general rant of the state of the forum right now. STTF was always like this, but there were always a few posters I could point to that were up and coming and would become very good players, I can't say that right now. It is possible I am retroactively overrating people and that small tangent at the end could be incorrect and irrelevant, but I'm not so sure.

kleath bottom set, deep

Oh, also I was assuming MP called. If MP folds I presto-call UTG because there are way more stupid overpair hand combinations in his range than the 6 over-set hands.

how much weight if any do you guys think the following statement holds:

"it doesn't matter what i'm repping because they can only call with the nuts."

not really in relation to my hand, but in a general poker sense.

Pretty much never playing more than 3 tables and often just 1 it sometimes seems like I'm just playing a different game than most everyone here. To me it seems crazy to try to answer this question out of context. Some people can fold the 3rd nuts and some people can't fold middle pair.

One general thought about "repping" - people play all kinds of hands all kinds of screwy ways. If you can figure out how they play hands you can do a better job of disguising your hand from them.

About the bottom set hand I mistakenly left out two very important details, MP tanked and folded, after he folded UTG said something to the effect of "it's tough to fold Aces" also utg was at both of the tables I was playing with full stacks.

kleath,
Nobody ever tells the truth there is no way he had AA.