STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2 - Page 153 - MTT Poker Strategy

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STTF SNG -> Cash Thread #2

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01-02-2009 , 05:39 PM

#3801

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($235)
BB ($244)
Hero ($200)
CO ($203)
BTN ($174)

Dealt to Hero T

Hero raises to $8, CO calls $8, fold, fold, fold,

FLOP ($19) A

Hero bets $12, CO calls $12,

TURN ($43) A

check, CO bets $19, Hero calls $19,

RIVER ($81) A

check, CO bets $34, Hero...?

Villain is 18/14/7.5 folds to c-bets 50% of time and has inf river aggression over 300 hands. I don't really recognize all the regs at nl200 yet but I suspect he's one of the better ones.

He's had position on me on several tables and has flatted my opens and c-bets a couple of times, and gotten aggressive when I've slowed down.

I wish I had some kind of read on his river bet sizing with the goods/bluff but I don't.

i would probly check the flop, most tags aren't going to fire 3 barrels without the goods. there aren't many draws and your hand has enough value to call a couple of streets.

the river is tough cuz he could have JcXc, but there really isn't a whole lot else that you beat and his inf af could just be a product of his tightness, so i'd fold.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 05:50 PM

#3802

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($226)
BB ($200)
UTG ($90)
UTG+1 ($590)
Hero ($267)
BTN ($156)

Dealt to Hero A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $3, fold, SB calls $2.50, BB raises to $12.50, Hero calls $9.50, fold,

FLOP ($28) T

BB bets $21.50, Hero...?

Villain is 17/17/inf. I've actually had very tight numbers because the player 2 to my right is madly aggro (has lost at least 5 stacks in 50 hands) and the big stack on my right keeps isolating him. I haven't had much opportunity to do anything without a big hand. I have no direct conflict with villain yet.

Comments on preflop and flop please. I feel somewhat lost much more than 100bb deep.

i've been 4betting AK a lot more lately, but against other tags who don't have a very high 3bet% i'd just flat in position. you can't stack off on that flop, but you can't fold either, so i would just call and reeval on turn.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 06:08 PM

#3803

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattiesmat

Two hands of today.

UTG was loose passive 51/7/2.6 over 45 hands. SB was TAG 13/4 over 47 hands. I wasn't really sure what to do here preflop being OOP. What would you do and why? Also what hands would you raise here? What about postflop?

Party Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $64.25
SB: $19.39
Hero (BB): $57.65
UTG: $50.30
MP: $58.76
CO: $57.90

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with J

UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.50) T

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $1.50, SB folds, Hero folds

i don't mind being oop vs. someone this loose and you have position on the nit, so i would raise to isolate utg.
as played, i bet the flop. limped pots are usually pretty easy to take down and you have a good draw. you also get a chance to isolate on the bad player. after checking the flop i would call at least one bet to try and hit your draw.

Quote:

UTG was the same loose passive player of last hand with stats 51/7/2.6 over 45 hands (I changed seat to have position). What are you thinking on this flop and how do you play it?

Party Poker $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $85.47
SB: $16.47
BB: $21.55
UTG: $58.75
Hero (MP): $54.40
CO: $43.96

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with 7

UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, 4 folds, UTG calls $2

Flop: ($5.75) 8

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ??

i would bet the flop to prevent utg from drawing for free. if called, i'd try to get to showdown cheap.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 06:18 PM

#3804

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

fairly common situation: i just sat down. tag regular is 17/14 and 3bet% is 2. what do you do here? what if you have QQ or AK?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

dipstikdave (BTN): $100.00
thegobby (SB): $102.90
Ninefingers (BB): $144.55
MiQl (UTG): $20.35
unknown player (MP): $240.00
tag regular (CO): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) dipstikdave is BTN with J

1 fold, unknown player raises to $4, tag regular raises to $12, Hero?

Quote

01-02-2009 , 06:48 PM

#3805

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattiesmat

UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.50) T

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $1.50, SB folds, Hero folds

I'd raise preflop for value. He'll call with worse, and you play better postflop that being oop isn't as big of a deal.

As played, you could lead the flop, but c/f is fine. I don't chase draws very often in limped pots.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 06:51 PM

#3806

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattiesmat

UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, 4 folds, UTG calls $2

Flop: ($5.75) 8

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ??

I'd bet. His range is so wide that and passive that it incluse over card hands, undercards to the board and smaller pairs. It makes the hand easy to play as well, and you gain protection.

You can just check back the turn, and fold to a river bet most likely.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 06:54 PM

#3807

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

1 fold, unknown player raises to $4, tag regular raises to $12, Hero?

It's tough, especially if you just sat because so much of it depends on the open raiser.

Anyway, i'd probably flat JJ-AA, AK here. I wouldn't 4bet anything really.

JJ and AK are bottom of my range, and I'd also fold them both sometimes depending on flow, etc.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 07:06 PM

#3808

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

As played, you could lead the flop, but c/f is fine. I don't chase draws very often in limped pots.

2.6 af is pretty high for someone so loose, i was thinking we might still have the best hand as well.
otoh, our draw isn't the nut and we probly won't get paid off if we hit our hand, so you're probly right.

Quote

01-02-2009 , 07:19 PM

#3809

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

Yea, it's a four card straight we are hoping to hit. So, I don't usually chase them unless I'm going to play them aggro.

You are right about his AF though, so you could c/r.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 01:22 AM

#3810

xPeru

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,194

I am thinking of signing up for one of the on-line training sites like Stoxpoker or cardrunners. Aim is to improve my game this year so that I move from being a winning 50nl 6max player, to being a winning 200nl 6 max player (and as an aspirational target, 400nl). Is this going to be worthwhile, and if so which site is best for my level? All advice gratefully received!

And ChrisV, re bluffing - pure ****ing gold man, thankyou.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 02:53 AM

#3811

rossi094

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 480

any of you dudes in this thread play high stakes? i used to play sngs then switced to cash, always lookin for people to disucss hands with.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 03:40 AM

#3812

cha59

ARTist

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,267

Quote:

Originally Posted by xPeru

These sites are very worthwhile. I like Card Runners, Deuces Cracked and Leggo a lot. Stox might be better if you were going to get into limit. I am a member at all four. You can pm me for my aim (or msn) name if you want to discuss them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossi094

any of you dudes in this thread play high stakes? i used to play sngs then switced to cash, always lookin for people to disucss hands with.

ChrisV probably plays higher than the rest of us, but there are a lot of great discussions here with less noise than the cash forums.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 02:41 PM

#3813

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

haven't been at the table long ~ 20 hands, i've been pretty active without showing anything down so far. villain has been tight passive up to this point.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $100.00
SB: $96.00
BB: $101.50
UTG: $100.00
MP: $106.00
Hero (CO): $111.40

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with 7

2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($9.00) 8

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB calls $6

Turn: ($21.00) 8

(2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero ?

Quote

01-03-2009 , 02:53 PM

#3814

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Strange spot.

I think I would just call here since it doesn't seem like raising against this guy is going to create much FE. The problem with calling is some of your outs might be tainted and you could already be drawing dead so even if you hit you can't go nuts with the hand so folding can't be too bad either. If you do call and he checks a blank river it's going to be tough to decide whether or not to try and bluff him off a wiffed flush draw that still beats your hand.

I would c-bet this bigger; something like $7.50 to $8.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 04:56 PM

#3815

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Ok, this is pretty non-standard for me.

I don't have a history with this guy, and I just sat so no stats to go off of.

How dumb on a scale of 1-10 do you think it is to try and get him to fold QQ+ here?

Party Poker $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $196.00
SB: $203.70
BB: $280.10
UTG: $302.74
MP: $94.35
CO: $200.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with 9

UTG raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19.00) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets $19.00, Hero calls $19

Turn: ($57.00) 6

(2 players)
UTG bets $28.50, Hero raises to $99

Quote

01-03-2009 , 05:00 PM

#3816

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($9.00) 8

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB calls $6

Turn: ($21.00) 8

(2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero ?

If I had less equity, I'd raise this donk a lot. He's usually looking to see where he's at with some smaller pair. However, the board did just get a lot drawier and he could be waking up with something he could slow play on the flop and it really sucks if he 3bet shoves on you.

So, with this hand I'd just take my sweet price and curse when I brick the river.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 05:46 PM

#3817

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

UTG raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19.00) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets $19.00, Hero calls $19

Turn: ($57.00) 6

(2 players)
UTG bets $28.50, Hero raises to $99

If I was villain, I would think if you had a set or two pair on this flop you would try to get it in on the flop before the board got even more scary for an overpair. Plus if I was villain I could easily put you on a draw if you make a move on this flop.

So I don't think it's a great move, but I've done a lot worse myself!

Quote

01-03-2009 , 06:40 PM

#3818

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

UTG raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19.00) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets $19.00, Hero calls $19

Turn: ($57.00) 6

(2 players)
UTG bets $28.50, Hero raises to $99

a good player would know that you'd probly raise the flop with most strong hands except maybe the str8, so you're repping a very narrow range on the turn. a bad player isn't gonna fold top pair, so i'd give it a 6.5 out of 10.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 07:21 PM

#3819

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

This is a good point. I knew when I raised that, although I was trying to make him think I had JJ, TT, or JT, that is not how I'd play those hands very often.

However, I don't always care at 200nl if I'm really repping much, cause it doesn't always matter. But, I never really thought about the fact that if he doesn't think that deeply, he won't fold QQ+ very often.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 07:43 PM

#3820

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

yeah good point Dave.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 07:46 PM

#3821

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($289)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($200)
UTG+1 ($315)
CO ($255)
BTN ($200)

Dealt to Hero 8

fold, fold, CO calls $2, fold, SB calls $1, check,

FLOP ($6) 9

check, Hero bets $4.50, CO calls $4.50, SB calls $4.50,

TURN ($19.50) 9

check, Hero bets $16, CO calls $16, SB folds,

RIVER ($51.50) 9

First hand, villain is unknown.

Quote

01-03-2009 , 07:53 PM

#3822

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

I don't mind b/f or c/f.

I don't think he has a K very often. KJ is about the only likely K. Maybe KT some times. So, I think you have the best hand a lot and he might make a crying call QJ or something if you half pot.

That being said, I wouldn't expect him to have something to bluff with much on the river, and he's not going to value bet worse, so c/f is definitely an option.

Probably lean towards c/f. Whatever you do, don't c/c

Quote

01-04-2009 , 03:32 PM

#3823

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

i called and river was Kc. sb checks, bluff or give up?

Quote

01-04-2009 , 03:51 PM

#3824

dipstikdave

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrochu

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($289)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($200)
UTG+1 ($315)
CO ($255)
BTN ($200)

Dealt to Hero 8

fold, fold, CO calls $2, fold, SB calls $1, check,

FLOP ($6) 9

check, Hero bets $4.50, CO calls $4.50, SB calls $4.50,

TURN ($19.50) 9

check, Hero bets $16, CO calls $16, SB folds,

RIVER ($51.50) 9

First hand, villain is unknown.

i hate every option here, but you probly don't get called enough by worse, and you probly won't get bluffed very much, so c/f seems right.

Quote

01-05-2009 , 10:51 AM

#3825

xPeru

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,194

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstikdave

i hate every option here, but you probly don't get called enough by worse, and you probly won't get bluffed very much, so c/f seems right.

Sigh, yet again, I find myself completely in the dark. Surely our only worry is a K, and given the action isn't KQ highly unlikely? This board at this limit, a whole load of 2pr hands come along and we have them nailed. I want them to bluff at this, so I would automatically check call - I would agree that a check raise is wrong. But why check fold? We have a low straight, but ffs we have a straight! On a board that hits lots of hands worse than us!

And w 2 callers on the flop, is there a good argument for check raising the turn to make the 2pr/TP hands bloat the pot against an aggressively played draw?

Quote

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