this thread has been awesome lately. thanks to jb, devin, chrisv who I haven't seen on aim in a while, microbet and dipstick - etc, etc. I've got nothing to add except focusing on my redline lately, but its working well - raised my af from 2 to about 5. Not sure why except I'm playing position more aggro. 5k sample size ftw.

Couldn't he easily have like 66-TT and QJ/JT type hands?

I feel left out

blackize I'll throw some props out for you! Seriously, the hands you post are always interesting and reading your thought process has been very helpful for me.

sometimes, but I think he checks them a lot too.

my stats are similar to yours, what are some spots you think you could be 3betting more from the btn?

Against a villain with a v high cbet%, I peel 95%, then donk turn whatever it is - betsize depends on whether I've improved or not. It's profitable so far...

Decision to peel is based not just on two overs, but also on having a backdoor draw.

Thanks Devin for the additional posts re 3 bets. I played this after digesting all comments, villain was 3bet 6.8%. I won the hand when he showed JJ, but even so is this a route to spewage?

UTG: $54.60
CO: $63.95
Hero (BTN): $60.95
SB: $193.75
BB: $51.85

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with Q K
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($12.50) 4 9 K (2 players)
SB bets $8.00, Hero calls $8

Turn: ($28.50) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $14.50, Hero calls $14.50

River: ($57.50) A (2 players)
SB bets $54.00, Hero calls $32.45 all in

I think it looks ok, I don't fold KQ pre very often in this spot. I could find a river fold sometimes. It's a good river for him to fire the third barrel though, so I think the call is fine.

Should I have 3 bet/shoved the turn? With sets I mix this up, so I felt OK calling, but is there a "standard" profitable play here? The river A obv worried me because I could see AQ and even Axs in his range here, but felt (not the most reliable poker strategy!) that he was more likely to have a pair.

I wouldn't shove the turn, it lets him play perfect as there aren't that many draws.

If I wanted to put in a raise at any point, it'd be on the flop. And it'd be smallish, like 35ish, because it looks really bluffy. But, I don't think I'd try that with too many people at these stakes.

I really think you played it well. Like I said, the river is tough, and I wouldn't fault a fold b/c some of the hands he's double barreling did get there, but it's also a card he's going to be bluffing a good %.

I'm really not sure what he was trying to accomplish with JJ here, I guess value stacking himself.

dave: I should reraise UTG raisers more I think. It gets a ton of respect and a lot of people still raise quite a bit UTG.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($97)
BB ($127)
Hero ($100)
CO ($107)
BTN ($224)

Dealt to Hero TJ

Hero raises to $4, fold, BTN raises to $11, fold, fold, Hero calls $7,

FLOP ($23.50) Q8K

check, BTN bets $12, Hero...?


Villain is 23/18/5.5 with 3bet% 7.5 over ~200 hands and he's been abusing the hell out of me. I think this is the 4th or 5th time he's 3-bet me (mostly from the BB) on this table in ~60 hands. I had to fold every one and also tightened up my CO/BTN open range.

I don't really love my call preflop but I think it's slightly better than folding or 4-betting. Thoughts on the call would be appreciated as I'm still a bit unsure.

With my read is the flop a standard c/r and then call it off if he shoves?

I'd still fold it preflop, despite the history. If you had another 25 bbs or so, I wouldn't mind it.

As played, I guess you should c/r get it in.

id way rather 4b than defend this oop

I was going to mention you but I couldn't remember how to spell ur sn. :O

I also think fold > 4bet > call preflop. I think this is a bad time to make a stand. Your hand is less important the fact that he reraised your UTG raise and that you'll be OOP.

damn, I had a hand very much like this (EP raise with JTs 3bet by aggressive LP) where I 4-bet and my coach thought calling was better. I'm going to have to dig that hand up again and try to figure out how it differs (maybe stacks idk) and what concept I screwed up this time...

I think he said once before it's blacksize.... :-)

Your coach may just have a different opinion, while I think 4bet is better I don't think there's a lot in it. I do think fold is significantly better than both.

I like calling better than 4betting fwiw...

Here is the other hand and they are very very similar. Villain was 21/16/2.5 and 3-bet% of 12 and was picking on me. (I might be paranoid ha ha.)

I had picked this hand to review mostly for postflop since I think I should have got a bet in there somewhere.

Anyway, my coach mentioned he didn't really like my 4-bet here and preferred a call over a fold.

Next time we have a session I'm going to bring up both these hands for discussion to make sure I didn't misunderstand a concept or misapply something but I will keep in mind that often there is no true "correct" answer for a given situation.


Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($34.90)
BB ($100)
Hero ($300)
UTG+1 ($138)
CO ($17.35)
BTN ($107)

Dealt to Hero TJ

Hero raises to $4, fold, fold, BTN raises to $11, fold, fold, Hero raises to $27, BTN calls $16,

FLOP ($55.50) 29T

check, check,

TURN ($55.50) 29T3

check, check,

RIVER ($55.50) 29T37

check, check,

Jb - there are a lot of ways to play the hand, but on the river I think there's value in betting. It's pretty easy for him to thing you have AK and make a call with 78, 89, 88, 66 or something and he's very rarely going to have you beat here or c/r bluff the river.

4betting pre I think is fine under the right conditions, but it's also fine to never 4bet light. If you don't know if you're just being paranoid then you probably shouldn't do it, because it's really easy to feel like someone is out to get you.

Don't just jump out of your normal game into a counter-strategy against a specific opponent. Study your opponent. Calmly and objectively formulate a plan for how to deal with him. Carry out your plan without emotion. Against a very bad player, you might have to do this quickly, so that you can get his money before anyone else, but against someone who seems good, don't rush it.

Is my advice better than your coach's?

JB, what was your plan if he bet like 38 on riv?

So regarding postflop on my second JTs hand.... Here was my thinking as best I can remember it. (The hand was played ~1.5 month ago.)

Once he calls the 4-bet preflop I think his range is crushing me because even though he was 3-betting me a lot, I had no reason to believe he was a terrible player, and he had no reason to believe I was capable of 4-betting light.

So when I hit top pair on the flop I think I'm still behind his range and betting turns my hand into a bluff - and he's not folding much if any of his range that's ahead.

I get kind of lost once he checks behind the flop and end up using the same logic I used on the flop on the turn, since he could still have easily checked behind something like JJ/QQ/AA plus maybe 99 and KK on the flop.

I agree with micro that once he also checks behind the turn there is some value in betting the river. I decided instead to c/c, so bones I think at the time I probably would have called a river bet of 38. I think betting the river myself is better though.

He showed down AsQs which is going to be crushed by my typical 4-betting range.


micro, I always appreciate your advice and it's always good. My coach is awesome too though! On this particular hand your postflop advice is similar but you waffled on the preflop action though so can't compare that!

He also is a big advocate of trying things out even if they might have neutral or slightly negative EV in the short term. (Because for instance, maybe I can't play in 3-bet pots as well as I should but the more I play them the better I'll get, and eventually I'll get to play a lot of strongly EV situations in big pots. That's all paraphrased for an example.)

So while I think he would agree with your advice about not adjusting too quickly, he does look favorably on sticking your neck out of your comfort zone in order to improve in the long-term. (You prolly believe that too I imagine.)

Anybody want to do a friendly wager($50-100) on # of hands for the rest of the month? I've been slacking and want to get a ton of hands in so I can get rich. A good month for me is 50k hands.

I guess I'd take a bet that I can't play 60k hands from now until the end of the month. Pretty sure I've lost every volume prop bet I've ever had so this is probably free money.