The A8dd hand,
If you're checking I would think it would be to c/c heads up. You have the best hand some percentage of the time but if you c/r and get it in your hand is just never ever good. I guess maybe you have some folding equity against A9, maybe. c/r becomes better if there's a flat caller between the bettor and you since now there's a decent chance you can get it in against a dominated draw and the c/r appears stronger so you have a better chance at folding an AT like hand although I still wouldn't count on it.

edit: meh, I guess there are a decent amount of dominated draws that aren't folding making a c/r stlil ok here regardless. Obviously it's never bad but you'll still be slightly behind if you get it in and you have basically no folding equity against better hands.

But you have no folding equity against ANY better hands by betting out while some better aces A9/AT will sometimes fold to a checkraise.

By checkraising we can also get an extra bet when he cbets air, nobody folds a flush draw, and best of all, given that there are 2 players behind the preflop raiser there's a good chance of trapping some dead money in there.

i think it's profitable to call and make it 4way w/ AXs

I made this post about threebetting, but 2p2 was ****ed up and it didn't go through.
Lets say the btn raises and you have a2o, you are likely ahead of his range, but you can't cal unless you play really well postflop like always calling down with ace high correctly or pairs and folding 2nd best hands a lot as well. The reason for this is pretty obvious playing OOP without the impetus is tough. There are two ways you can negate positional advantage, reducing the amount of decisions in the hand and gaining the impetus. Reducing the amount of decisions can be done in two ways controlling the pot, which is tough to do oop vs. an aggro opponent. If you are in position you can check back streets to control the pot, but oop it is much harder since aggro villains can and will fire two and three barrels a lot. The other way to do it is to reduce the amount of decisions you make by making the pot bigger if you three bet you only have two bets behind usually so you have less decisions where your opponent can exploit his positional advantage. Obviously gaining the impetus is also helpful since you can get him to fold worse hands if I 3bet A2o and bet Kj4 he could fold t9s, where I would like c/f a2o if I called preflop. A2o is just a hand I am using to illustrate my point I would fold A2o, pretty close to 100% of the time.

The reason I brought all this up in the first place is because I argued you should be three betting wider oop than in position. In position you can flat a wide range of hands profitably where you can win postflop by making the best hand or raising cbets or checking when bet to you or w/e. OOP there are lots of hands that leave you in tricky spots postflop, not just hands like the A2o example, but lets say you had kqo flop is k52 do you c/c three streets? c/r, bet bet? Are you content only getting in two bets postflops? It is likely you won't maximize value, however by three betting preflop you can get him to fold a lot of hands with good pot equity vs. you like A2o and even if he calls three bets really wide he will still be folding tons of flops. If you flop a pair you flop a pair or a draw you can get it in almost always in aggro games.. So you should be three betting wider oop to reduce your opponents positional edge and it works well as a bluff or for value depending on your specific opponents calling range and your hand.

In the TT example I would never three bet.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $50.00
CO: $49.75
BTN: $60.25
SB: $77.40
Hero (BB): $106.30

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 9 Q
3 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.00) T 3 Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($16.00) Q (2 players)
SB bets $11, Hero calls $11

River: ($38.00) A (2 players)
SB bets $58.40 all in, Hero calls $58.40

guy is 28/10/13 drooler ****face

Pudge, 3-betting a wider range OOP or 3-bet vs call ratio is higher? You are playing fewer hands OOP, right?

Bengie, you're probably right. That advice was from my 8 yo. If you think you are going to get raised, then bet3bet is something to think about on the flop, but because there were so many callers pre, you don't end up with much FE on the 3bet. A free card is not a problem and if no one has an Ace and it checks through the flop, you can get a little value from either second pair - or if a diamond hits, someone with Kd or Qd.

I think Djj6835 is right about it being a tough choice between c/c and c/r. You only have FE vs a couple better hands at most, but c/c can let him play a lot of hands perfectly against you on turn and river. I'm thinking c/r small and maybe he thinks he has some FE with a dominated draw.

gonna answer for him and say the 3bet vs call ratio is higher, definitely playing fewer hands OOP. Although these are not mutually exclusive with 3betting a wider range OOP, I definitely dont. I do 3bet a lot of hands OOP that i would call IP though.

Villian is 23/7

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $127.05
UTG: $22.15
CO: $38.60
Hero (BTN): $65.35
SB: $167.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q K
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.50) K Q J (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4, UTG folds

Turn: ($14.50) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11, SB raises to $30, Hero calls $19

I think calling is ok, but so is getting it in after his turn raise.

You only fear AT, T9, KK, QQ, JJ, 88. The only hands I think he calls with pf from sb that beat you are AT, JJ, 88 and maybe T9s or J8s.

Other hands he might have are other pocket pairs, although I don't think he would raise them. I could see him raising AA, AK-AJ, KJ, QJ and a ton of draws (flush and str8), all of which you beat ATM.

I like calling and making a decision based on the turn card and his bet sizing.


hate the flop donk since you have relatively position on the PFR and there are two other people in the pot. If there's a bunch of dead money in the pot when it gets back around to me I'd c/r, prolly AI. I think HU with the PFR I'd just c/c. Were gonna stack worse flush draws when they hit and the rest of the cbetting range either has us crushed (sets, better aces) or was just taking a stab b/c its an ace high flop (low pockets, scs, KK/QQ ish comes to mind).

I cbet $5 to extract more value here and just ship it in on the turn. Don't really see what just calling the turn raise accomplishes other than allowing him to sometimes get away from combo draws that miss and we want to get the money in vs these hands on the turn.

Pudge, I think your advice is good against TAGish/tigher opponents that don't call 3bet IP wide, but against more aggressive opponents 3-betting A2o OOP is pretty bad as there are better trash hands to do it with that have more post-flop value.

What should I do on the river?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $30.65
CO: $61.50
BTN: $44.35
SB: $44.50
Hero (BB): $56.60
UTG: $148.20
UTG+1: $49.45
MP1: $32.90

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A K
4 folds, CO raises to $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.00) 7 7 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($6.00) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($6.00) A (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, CO raises to $15, SB folds, Hero ?

Jek, I like a squeeze preflop.

On the river I think you're beat basically never and splitting with AK a good amount of time. AT least call. Every hand that beats you should be betting the turn but people do weird **** sometimes so I'm not sure how much value a 3bet or push would get you.

wrong thread sorry

jeck i can't see you being ahead that often. people LOVE to slow play LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

he is 45/16 so his range is fairly wide

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $58.20
BTN: $95.05
SB: $21.00
Hero (BB): $101.85
UTG: $48.75

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 3 3
1 fold, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $3, CO calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($6.50) 2 5 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO calls $5

Turn: ($16.50) J (2 players)
Hero bets $14, CO calls $14

River: ($44.50) 4 (2 players)
hero?

this spot really sucks. i think his most likely hand is a FD, unfrot it will be AXs most of the time. i would check his aggression. if he's really passive i would be ok with a check fold. i dont really see that much value in a bet. he has less than a PSB anyway....

his af is 2.5 i checked as i could see nothing that i am beating that would still call

cleinen, check river, he's not going to bluff that board. Also, just check preflop unless the limpers are redic weak and limp/fold a ton.

C/C. The way he's played it there's probably not a whole lot of worse he's calling the River with, while you can induce a number of worse (that would otherwise fold) to bet. If you lead to fold to a raise, if he does it on a bluff even occassionally, that hurts the River lead a bit too.

If he shoved to your check I'd reconsider, but even donks like to bet/bluff their busted draws (spades or a 4) on the end, and if he backed into a straight with the A or A5, etc., congratulations to him. I love it when these players "bluff" like 1/4 pot (or some other amount) on the end with no pair/shat pair.

Agree 100% w gramps, limped 77+ are definitely in this guys range too, so check call any river bet up to ?????????% of pot ... eg call $35? = 44%

Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.436% 56.44% 00.00% 114 0.00 { 3c3s }
Hand 1: 43.564% 43.56% 00.00% 88 0.00 { 22+, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, K8s+, K2s, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, AJo, A6o-A2o, KJo }

FWIW I like c/r turn on coordinated boards with vulnerable monsters OOP. good/bad?

Against an aggressive opponent who may be floating it is an option but def shouldn't be a standard line in these spots.

villain 17/8/0/59... had raised his BB a few times in past hour and he always folded.

how's my line?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $49.50
Hero (SB): $201.75
BB: $97.35
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $236.35
UTG+2: $183.00
MP1: $18.50
MP2: $104.10
CO: $155.35

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with 8 K
7 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $8, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($16.00) K Q 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $8, Hero calls $8

Turn: ($32.00) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, Hero calls $10

River: ($52.00) K (2 players)
Hero?

Responding to check raise?

HU, if c/r comes, I only continue if I have odds (implied) to improve to a hand that beats a set, or I have TPTK or better. I watched a video which suggested calling the c/r with a wide range of hands. I'm up for this if I think the c/r is a wide range, or polarised into nuts or air, but I am not inclined to practise this without a clearer idea of the plan for the rest of the hand, hence I have no HH to post. Does anyone have any advice on responding to the c/r with marginal hands, or any links to decent discussion of them? Thanks.

awful, you're talking about offering a free card to someone on a drawy board when you have what is almost certainly the best hand now, which is totally backwards. If you ahve a monster draw, you can c/r because a free card is fine, whereas its disastrous on these boards with a made hand.