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Stars'  45man SNGs Stars'  45man SNGs

10-11-2009 , 11:48 AM
Bit of advice on some shoving spots mainly, trying to establish if I'm getting them right.

Hand #1 - good spot to 3-bet or is it not worth it with small blinds and no antes?


Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t3410 M = 75.78
UTG+1: t1455 M = 32.33
MP: t1500 M = 33.33
Hero (CO): t2090 M = 46.44
BTN: t1485 M = 33
SB: t1140 M = 25.33
BB: t2420 M = 53.78

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is CO with 5 7
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t90, 1 fold, Hero raises to t250, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to t1455 all in, 1 fold


Hand #2 - shove?

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t50 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t25772 M = 16.11
UTG+1: t6220 M = 3.89
MP1: t4223 M = 2.64
MP2: t4100 M = 2.56
Hero (CO): t2476 M = 1.55
BTN: t13012 M = 8.13
SB: t3697 M = 2.31
BB: t8000 M = 5

Pre Flop: (t1600) Hero is CO with 2 T
6 folds, SB raises to t3647 all in, 1 fold



Hand 3 - insta-shove?!

Poker Stars $3.00+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t800/t1600 Blinds + t75 - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t29197 M = 10.24
BTN: t3396 M = 1.19
Hero (SB): t4602 M = 1.61
BB: t17387 M = 6.10
UTG: t4166 M = 1.46
MP: t8752 M = 3.07

Pre Flop: (t2850) Hero is SB with 9 5
5 folds




There are a few more pretty similar sort of hands but you get the idea..
Killing this stake with a 95% ROI for now but looking to perfect this area as its pretty critical given they're turbos etc...any advice much appreciated, ty
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 11:54 AM
1- calling is better and a lot of people fold too. I would probably fold playing a lot of tables but I'm assuming you play only a few

2 and 3 you have to shove
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 11:58 AM
1 is kinda spewy. As you said there's no money in the pot. And the guy is raise from UTG, and most of the field in these probably aren't folding much of their UTG range. Just fold.

2. is a shove. Crappy spot but you have FE because people in these have terrible calling ranges.

3. Easy shove.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 11:59 AM
uhmmm.. hand #1 is an insta fold preflop. wait for a better spot. same with hand #2.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 12:29 PM
Just fold pre in 1 - the 3/45s are crushable playing straightforward.

2 and 3 are both shoves as ppl generally call waaaaaaaaaay too tight in these
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaewn
Just fold pre in 1 - the 3/45s are crushable playing straightforward.

2 and 3 are both shoves as ppl generally call waaaaaaaaaay too tight in these
+348239054238409
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 01:54 PM
tyty
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 02:12 PM
Hand 1: Not enough people have entered the pot so I would fold.

Hands 2&3: Shove any two all day
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_nemo
uhmmm.. hand #1 is an insta fold preflop. wait for a better spot. same with hand #2.
i alold loud enuff to make my gf ask me whats so funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caysewell
Hand 1: Not enough people have entered the pot so I would fold.
Hands 2&3: Shove any two all day
this!
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-11-2009 , 09:00 PM
you can call 1 if you want to but 3betting it is not a good idea

i would fold 2 as well, sb also kindof short and bb only has to call 800 more if no else does so i dont see u having much FE or a hand with good showdown value, you just need to make sure to shove before blinds hits you

shoving 3 is fine
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 10:18 AM
1 - fold

2 - shove

3 - shove
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 10:31 AM
1)fold 2)puke 3)shove
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 11:06 AM
i agree with almost all- but is the second hand realy a shove? i would wait till a little bit better hand and call/shove for sure if i reach the blind.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirschi
i agree with almost all- but is the second hand realy a shove? i would wait till a little bit better hand and call/shove for sure if i reach the blind.
+1

little surprised everyone seems to recommend an autoshove here
BB will call with any 2 so there is no fold equity at all
i'd fold this one for sure and wait for something at least somewhat better
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driskill
+1

little surprised everyone seems to recommend an autoshove here
BB will call with any 2 so there is no fold equity at all
i'd fold this one for sure and wait for something at least somewhat better
Rarely will BB call with any 2. First off even if he had 15000 chips most people are terrible when it comes to calling short stacks. And even if he's a good player he's probably not calling with any 2 since if he loses he's losing nearly half of his stack and losing FE. Getting good odds is worthless if it cripples you and takes away your "weapons". Maybe if it wasn't a turbo it'd be a little different.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous
Rarely will BB call with any 2. First off even if he had 15000 chips most people are terrible when it comes to calling short stacks. And even if he's a good player he's probably not calling with any 2 since if he loses he's losing nearly half of his stack and losing FE. Getting good odds is worthless if it cripples you and takes away your "weapons". Maybe if it wasn't a turbo it'd be a little different.
u saw that hero has 2500 chips?
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:32 PM
it's not that he'd loose half his stack, just a bit more than a quarter
calling and loosing would leave him with ~5500 chips which is not the worst possible outcome at 400/800
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:32 PM
T2o might be a fold, but I would advocate pushing any K, Q, and suited J at the very least.

(Plus, between misclicks and players that don't understand pot odds, I think we have some amount of fold equity even with a 3 BB push.)
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirschi
u saw that hero has 2500 chips?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driskill
it's not that he'd loose half his stack, just a bit more than a quarter
calling and loosing would leave him with ~5500 chips which is not the worst possible outcome at 400/800
Yep. If blinds are going up within one minute and I'm in the BB I'm not calling his shove in BB with 42o. Our M is already at 5 and when blinds go up we'll have hardly any FE if we lose.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous
Yep. If blinds are going up within one minute and I'm in the BB I'm not calling his shove in BB with 42o. Our M is already at 5 and when blinds go up we'll have hardly any FE if we lose.
lol, but hero has some FE? this isnt logic..
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:49 PM
1st hand obviously bad.

2nd hand I'd fold with that crap kicker. T7 maybe.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirschi
lol, but hero has some FE? this isnt logic..
Well actually now looking at the stacks at the table we could probably call with ATC in BB and still be 4th in chips. So 8000=6000 for FE. I wasn't even paying attention to the rest of the stack sizes.

But yeah we still do have FE if we're the hero since people are terrible at calling.
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 02:02 PM
shove 2nd hand look how many bbs u got
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by umitseric
shove 2nd hand look how many bbs u got
we had exceeded that point of discussion yet....
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote
10-12-2009 , 03:18 PM
1) Fold, in $3/45 turbos just fold these hands til the blinds get to the point where people are really bad.
2) Uhhhhhhh, that's really close. People are right when they say people are terrible in these, and the BB might just fold. But if he's anything but a drooler he'll be calling. I'd probably fold and wait til I get at least a broadway card, since the blinds won't hit you for a few more hands.
3) shoveshoveshoveshovsheoshvseo
Stars'  45man SNGs Quote

      
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