Sorel allegedly bottom dealing vs john racener
02-21-2011
, 05:34 AM
02-21-2011
, 07:55 AM
02-21-2011
, 08:32 AM
02-21-2011
, 09:11 AM
02-21-2011
, 10:40 AM
02-21-2011
, 01:08 PM
I'll be the first to admit that I have made a ton of mistakes and have several regrets in both my life and profession but cheating in Chinese poker isn't one of them. The allegations in this thread are so absurd, far-fetched and severe that the magnitude of the lies almost make me at a complete loss of words. What makes me even more speechless is how many of you jump to conclusions in a situation where it's one persons word vs my own. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised when it comes to Me vs anyone else in the community its the other person who gets the immediate credit for telling the truth and people who play against me or I do biz with obv know this. This is the primary reason why people take shots at me. Because I took over for someone in the middle of a tournament over 3 years ago no one in the general poker community will believe anything I say and it sucks because no matter what I do, for as long as I'm in this industry, I will always have that stigma attached to my name. I try to seperate myself from most poker players and not get too close to them because (and this may sound really weird to you guys coming from me) I think most of them are douchey and scummy. Maybe its time for me to consider a new career because respect from peers in industry is very important and I clearly have very little.
I have been cheated and stiffed several times since the FTP incident, the people involved knew full well that by doing so not only would there likely be no negative reprucutions but they'd possibly get praised for doing it to someone who has "stole" so much from the community. Just to mention one example, someone i was staking left me while in makeup 2 weeks after the FTP incident ... what can I do? Post right after the ftp thing unravels saying I just got ****ed over? How do you think that would turn out? Imagine me coming onto 2+2 saying someone had lost a bet and didn't pay me or cheated me out of money. The thread would be full of people saying things such as "pot calling kettle black," "you deserve it cheater," "karma's a bitch" etc. and very little focus on the actual issue at hand. The first time I publicly complained about being cheated was also the last. Mizzi Mad at Italian Poker
There's really just no point in me calling these people out publicly because it just seems like no one cares because it happened to me, a "known cheat".
I have been playing Chinese poker for about 4 years on and off but mostly on. I've played thousands of hands with such players as Doyle Brunson, Eli Elezra, Roland De Wolfe, Barry Greenstein, Mike Matusow, Phil Helmuth, Matt Glantz and David Oppenheim. Some of which who have been around the poker world for decades and I'm sure could easily sniff out a cheater in a self dealt game.
I have had both big wins and equally big losses in Chinese but am fortunate enough to be up a decent amount lifetime. I have been accused or suspected of cheating in Chinese poker a couple of times prior to this. One of the times the accuser was someone I had never played against and accused me solely based on how much I won from my opponent (his friend) in such a short amount of time (we were playing 8k a point at peak and doing random 50-100k flips). Another time I was accused of cheating in online Chinese poker by using a program that when I submit which 13 cards I have tells you exactly how to set the hand perfectly according to maximize your EV. This program does exist and I had just started using it prior to playing online Chinese in order to practice against the computer and get better at setting my hand but had never used it while actually playing.
I did play Racener in Bahamas. He knew that I had just beat James Dempsey out of ~90k a few days prior playing basically the same format. We had an outstanding number from various things such as betting on a basketball game, lodden thinks, last longer's and Chinese. We had known each other for quite a while prior to this trip but only as acquintances who would occasionally exchange head nods when we walked by one another.
We were doing random 50:50 flips and playing Chinese poker freezeouts (whoever was up after 10 hands wins 5k-10k, i think?) with 2 jokers where we would both deal a deck and we take turns having a hand with 14 cards (and get to discard one). I was up 3-1 (effectively 10k) in the Chinese game. Since we didn't know each other that well we agreed it would be best to settle after every game so we both had chips and cash. The current game we were playing was for 10k, he had finished setting both of his hands and looked back at the first hand he had set to change it. It's def against the rules in criss-cross Chinese so I told him it wasn't allowed. His reaction was super defensive and sensitive, I didn't think what he did was that big a deal but I just thought I'd point it out to him because most people I play Chinese with know it's a nono simply because you can set your first hand better with knowledge of what you had in your second hand. A few hands later he stopped me after the deal and told me that he wanted my 14 card hand. I told him he couldn't because it was my turn to have the 14 card hand. He grabbed the hand and freaked out when he saw that the joker was around the bottom of the deck (3-6 cards in not first bottom card like Shaun reports). He started going off on how he saw me deal the joker from the bottom of the deck. I yelled back and him and told him he was wrong blah blah blah. Went on for about 5 minutes and then John decided to quit in the middle of our 10k game with me up around 15-20 points after 4-5 hands and demanded I paid him back all the money I won from the trip from all the other stuff we bet on. I basically told him GFY and left but still ended up paying him for the sports bet he won.
I'm not sure what John's incentive is for lying to Deeb (assuming he did in fact and Deeb is not making this up which despite our problems in the past and knowing how big of a hard-on deeb has for "exposing" me I don't think he would do). Even tho I truly believe that Deeb means well he def likes to be the center of attention in uncovering controversies and has no problem triumphantly taking credit for it. I didn't think it would be money since he had just come 2nd in the WSOP for over 5 million (although I know he only had 50% of himself minus taxes minus a pretty balling house which he said he just bought minus whatever losses he may or may not have incurred since the main event in poker or other things). But I guess people's incentive in these situations don't necessarily have to be monetary. Perhaps he heard rumors from people of me cheating in Chinese and wanted to take advantage of that thinking the entire poker community would side with him (correct). Maybe he just disliked me and wanted to see me go down (final nail in the coffin etc).I'm not even sure exactly how one effectively cheats in Chinese. The only stories I've heard about cheating in chinese poker is people who muck their bottom hands and put a big hand up top when their entire hand is **** (like bad 3pair so they put AA up top and muck rest of their hand). Or maybe putting down a big royalty (straight flush) but setting it down so that you don't see that one of the cards in the "straight flush" is actually a heart and not a diamond ex.(having 3d,4d,5d,6h,7d) but covering it as if the heart is a diamond) Dealing off the bottom of the deck is ridic, honestly sounds like something out of a movie and don't really think it would be effective in Chinese ( unless ur playing with jokers i guess).. I've probably played with jokers a total of 5 or 6 times?... I'm by no means a magician or good with cards or card tricks... I have one card trick and its kind of lame...
I liked Racener b4 this , but the guys def got some issues if hes telling people I admitted to cheating and claimed a family member was dying / i was on anti depressants as a reason for cheating.. oh and suicide threats lol... that just blows my mind. Was waiting for him to actually post b4 saying anything n not just go off of shauns word but doesn't seem like that's going to happen anytime soon (maybe after this it might)... Overall, I'm just very confused tbh, trying to figure things out myself... prob going to delete my 2p2 account and self ban myself for life b/c i care less and less what people think on this forum the more and more I read the crap u trolls write (only attacking the trolls, u know who u are).. its just makes me sad and depressed (not enough to kill myself dont worry) and I want to be happy and enjoy my life. The theme of 2011 is to protect myself from being ****ed over... What else is in store for me? I think after the WSOP I'm likely going to do some charity work in Cambodia and then seriously consider finding another job
as far as my chinese goes, as much as i enjoy it I prob won't play again unless it's with someone I trust / someone I've played a ton with and/or there's a third party watching at all times to settle disputes.
Peace out for now (until next controversy obv) ETA 2-3 months
I have been cheated and stiffed several times since the FTP incident, the people involved knew full well that by doing so not only would there likely be no negative reprucutions but they'd possibly get praised for doing it to someone who has "stole" so much from the community. Just to mention one example, someone i was staking left me while in makeup 2 weeks after the FTP incident ... what can I do? Post right after the ftp thing unravels saying I just got ****ed over? How do you think that would turn out? Imagine me coming onto 2+2 saying someone had lost a bet and didn't pay me or cheated me out of money. The thread would be full of people saying things such as "pot calling kettle black," "you deserve it cheater," "karma's a bitch" etc. and very little focus on the actual issue at hand. The first time I publicly complained about being cheated was also the last. Mizzi Mad at Italian Poker
There's really just no point in me calling these people out publicly because it just seems like no one cares because it happened to me, a "known cheat".
I have been playing Chinese poker for about 4 years on and off but mostly on. I've played thousands of hands with such players as Doyle Brunson, Eli Elezra, Roland De Wolfe, Barry Greenstein, Mike Matusow, Phil Helmuth, Matt Glantz and David Oppenheim. Some of which who have been around the poker world for decades and I'm sure could easily sniff out a cheater in a self dealt game.
I have had both big wins and equally big losses in Chinese but am fortunate enough to be up a decent amount lifetime. I have been accused or suspected of cheating in Chinese poker a couple of times prior to this. One of the times the accuser was someone I had never played against and accused me solely based on how much I won from my opponent (his friend) in such a short amount of time (we were playing 8k a point at peak and doing random 50-100k flips). Another time I was accused of cheating in online Chinese poker by using a program that when I submit which 13 cards I have tells you exactly how to set the hand perfectly according to maximize your EV. This program does exist and I had just started using it prior to playing online Chinese in order to practice against the computer and get better at setting my hand but had never used it while actually playing.
I did play Racener in Bahamas. He knew that I had just beat James Dempsey out of ~90k a few days prior playing basically the same format. We had an outstanding number from various things such as betting on a basketball game, lodden thinks, last longer's and Chinese. We had known each other for quite a while prior to this trip but only as acquintances who would occasionally exchange head nods when we walked by one another.
We were doing random 50:50 flips and playing Chinese poker freezeouts (whoever was up after 10 hands wins 5k-10k, i think?) with 2 jokers where we would both deal a deck and we take turns having a hand with 14 cards (and get to discard one). I was up 3-1 (effectively 10k) in the Chinese game. Since we didn't know each other that well we agreed it would be best to settle after every game so we both had chips and cash. The current game we were playing was for 10k, he had finished setting both of his hands and looked back at the first hand he had set to change it. It's def against the rules in criss-cross Chinese so I told him it wasn't allowed. His reaction was super defensive and sensitive, I didn't think what he did was that big a deal but I just thought I'd point it out to him because most people I play Chinese with know it's a nono simply because you can set your first hand better with knowledge of what you had in your second hand. A few hands later he stopped me after the deal and told me that he wanted my 14 card hand. I told him he couldn't because it was my turn to have the 14 card hand. He grabbed the hand and freaked out when he saw that the joker was around the bottom of the deck (3-6 cards in not first bottom card like Shaun reports). He started going off on how he saw me deal the joker from the bottom of the deck. I yelled back and him and told him he was wrong blah blah blah. Went on for about 5 minutes and then John decided to quit in the middle of our 10k game with me up around 15-20 points after 4-5 hands and demanded I paid him back all the money I won from the trip from all the other stuff we bet on. I basically told him GFY and left but still ended up paying him for the sports bet he won.
I'm not sure what John's incentive is for lying to Deeb (assuming he did in fact and Deeb is not making this up which despite our problems in the past and knowing how big of a hard-on deeb has for "exposing" me I don't think he would do). Even tho I truly believe that Deeb means well he def likes to be the center of attention in uncovering controversies and has no problem triumphantly taking credit for it. I didn't think it would be money since he had just come 2nd in the WSOP for over 5 million (although I know he only had 50% of himself minus taxes minus a pretty balling house which he said he just bought minus whatever losses he may or may not have incurred since the main event in poker or other things). But I guess people's incentive in these situations don't necessarily have to be monetary. Perhaps he heard rumors from people of me cheating in Chinese and wanted to take advantage of that thinking the entire poker community would side with him (correct). Maybe he just disliked me and wanted to see me go down (final nail in the coffin etc).I'm not even sure exactly how one effectively cheats in Chinese. The only stories I've heard about cheating in chinese poker is people who muck their bottom hands and put a big hand up top when their entire hand is **** (like bad 3pair so they put AA up top and muck rest of their hand). Or maybe putting down a big royalty (straight flush) but setting it down so that you don't see that one of the cards in the "straight flush" is actually a heart and not a diamond ex.(having 3d,4d,5d,6h,7d) but covering it as if the heart is a diamond) Dealing off the bottom of the deck is ridic, honestly sounds like something out of a movie and don't really think it would be effective in Chinese ( unless ur playing with jokers i guess).. I've probably played with jokers a total of 5 or 6 times?... I'm by no means a magician or good with cards or card tricks... I have one card trick and its kind of lame...
I liked Racener b4 this , but the guys def got some issues if hes telling people I admitted to cheating and claimed a family member was dying / i was on anti depressants as a reason for cheating.. oh and suicide threats lol... that just blows my mind. Was waiting for him to actually post b4 saying anything n not just go off of shauns word but doesn't seem like that's going to happen anytime soon (maybe after this it might)... Overall, I'm just very confused tbh, trying to figure things out myself... prob going to delete my 2p2 account and self ban myself for life b/c i care less and less what people think on this forum the more and more I read the crap u trolls write (only attacking the trolls, u know who u are).. its just makes me sad and depressed (not enough to kill myself dont worry) and I want to be happy and enjoy my life. The theme of 2011 is to protect myself from being ****ed over... What else is in store for me? I think after the WSOP I'm likely going to do some charity work in Cambodia and then seriously consider finding another job
as far as my chinese goes, as much as i enjoy it I prob won't play again unless it's with someone I trust / someone I've played a ton with and/or there's a third party watching at all times to settle disputes.Peace out for now (until next controversy obv) ETA 2-3 months
Last edited by Imper1um; 02-21-2011 at 01:14 PM.
02-21-2011
, 01:35 PM
