guys Im not quitting poker Im quitting tourneys. I know I got a lot of you into this etc and motivated you but Ive lost all motivation and dont see it coming back in a long time theres little to gain from mtts for me in the future at least life ev wise

So what cash games will you be grinding?

not even sundays ?

deeb vs isildur one time?

Well I don't get how you can be "stuck in Portugal" especially Vilamoura. Also I don't get how spending 5 weeks in Europe is a bad thing. There are parts about it that are hard to deal with especially if you are playing live poker a bunch during that time but you are also in Europe. If you want to clear your mind go for a walk, see some cool ****, get a massage, aquire some of those so called Bannas all the kids are talking about and do something besides eat them in your hotel room. Be happy that you get to do something that allows you to go to lots of cool places and stay in 5 star hotels all the time which WAY less then 1% of people our age are doing and a huge percent would love to do.

Also Deeb is clearly burnt out. Taking one week, or two weeks or a month off Sundays/tourneys in general isn't going to have a huge financial impact on his life but that will hopefully be able to put stuff in perspective. Do whataver you like doing besides poker then come back refreshed and wanting to play again. I know this sounds crazy but if you like your job you will do much better at it AND you are going to be happier overall.


Without knowing to much about Shaun's financial situation the part about him taking his own action is for sure good advice. There part about only playing EPT's if he qualifies might not be. Who would have thought it, but live 5-10ks are REALLY high variance. Again without knowing how much money Shaun has there is a chance he would be qualifying into tournaments that he shouldn't really be playing because they are going to represent a huge percent of his net worth. I guess the good news is he has the perk of being Shaundeeb and could easily sell off a bunch of action at a much higher percent then he deserves and this isn't a knock to Shaun. People love to buy percents of guys that are well known at a way higher price then they often deserve.

I think in general people get backed for the wrong reasons. In cash games or SNGs it is pretty standard to move up stakes with your bankroll. In tourneys people love chasing big scores in stuff they can't afford so they get backed. Shaun giving up his online action for live backing is insaine. Guy is the biggest grinder ever yet he wanted to play all the live stuff. Just get a live only deal at a lower percent, or play live mtts occasionally when they are really good/you qualify, and again if you can justify playing them based on net worth. If not sell of action. WSOP time is different. Expect to gamble a bit but not so much that it will crush your soul of you go 0 for and if you do happen to lose a bunch grind it back after again taking a break if you need one.

It's not only Shaun but it is mind boggling how these huge grinders/very good players have to get backed.
1. Don't degen in the pit/the rhino/hookers (steal underpants)
2. Don't play high enough that if you lose a few buy ins it is going to prevent you from playing the stakes your crush. (....)
3. Profit (Profit)

It really isn't that hard.

Live 10Ks, at least in the US, are by far the lowest variance form of tournament poker there is, because the structures are the best. (I've never played an EPT, but looking at the structures online they seem to be not even close to as good, 60 min. levels on Day 1 sucks for an event at that buy-in). The problem is their cost and infrequency, which I guess you could loosely describe as "variance" if you're thinking about absolute dollar amounts and time horizons rather than the actual definition of variance. I am backed because it allows me to play big live events, there is no doubt in my mind that it's significantly +EV for me to do so.

can we still get a beer and go to Ted's when I get back up to Troy?

yah not going into the whole not being backed being backed but I'll leave this brief I have/had a amazing deal and pretty much any bankroll I could have I'd still prob take the deal fwiw.

yah ssnyc Im not going from 2+2 dont worry

EPT's also go to 8 handed form Day 2 on and are slightly lower average buyin than WPTs (7-8K), also much softer fields in general. Levels also go to 75 minutes from Day 2 onwards.

todd I'll bet you any amount of $ if there was a way to prove that epts were lower variance with exact same fieldsizes then us 10ks I'd hapily put my roll on it this is poker from 5+ years ago people limping their range playing amazingly bad. Theres just maybe 2 good players at a table while us 10ks have 2 great players and 4 good players min.

I have played a grand total of 1 EPT event and 1 WPT main event in the past 2 years, but allow me to make this completely sample size-challenged resolution to the todd terry-sfd dispute on this point:

In both venues there are alot of bad players and a decent amount of great players. Where the great players are great in both venues, the real difference comes in the % of bad players, the caliber of the bad players and the ease of getting chips from them.

The play in the US is light years ahead of the play in Europe. Todd, the only thing I can say to you, is that you have to see it to believe it. All expenses aside, I would spend all year in europe playing EPTs and all side events for at least the next 2 years before grinding out Bellagio prelim serieses and main events for example.

As for structures, I really don't care. You can give me 100 bbs to start the day and double the blinds after 50 minutes and I would still have maybe 3x better ROI over the course of any reasonable period of time in EPTS as opposed to the USA where, as bad as the play is among non experts, it really isnt even close to the beginnerness that is ept.

Again, my sample size is close to zero, but I must report what I see.

Just wanted to say that I feel indebted to you because your results and high volume have always inspired me. And as Jurollo said, Im sure you will be successful at whatever it is you decide to do after poker. It takes some serious skills to achieve what you have accomplished. But you played such an insane schedule (i used to search you frequently) that some kind of burnout was inevitable. At your age, I think you should have more balance in you life (traveling, sexing girls, or whatever). Anyways, no need to write anything in stone now, just take a break, and see how you feel after.

shaun u r the best!

if this is about a girl, get drunk and forget her.

pussies aint worth the trouble!

u know who u are: the Nr. 1 online player in the whole ****ing world.

lol...I just listened to the deucescracked podcast with you (ep 24 .. yeah, I know I'm behind) where you argued with bart hanson about cash vs mtts. you told him how grinding cash is stupid and boring after 2-3 hours but how winning tournaments is so awesome and that you can grind them forever.

http://podcasts.deucescracked.com/de...Shaun_Deeb.mp3

9:30

anyway. see you next week in the 3r

I believe you guys on the play quality. The EPTs could be higher +EV due to field weakness, but they're also going to be higher variance due to the structures IMO. I've gone deep in WPTs where I've run like **** on Day 1, because I was able to survive due to the structure, in an EPT if you run like **** on Day 1 you're gone. Lee Markholt cashed in 9 WPT events in a calendar year once (which is insane anyway), I doubt that's possible on the EPT. IDK, your edge is smaller in WPTs but it's going to materialize more consistently, something like that.

i think situations like this occur every time you lose balance in your everyday life.

Just thx for everything.

shaun "fat ass" deeb ?

I'm not sure if this is possible. With most investments there's a tradeoff between expectation and variance, but that's because the distribution of outcomes is different. A well-structured tourney and a poorly-structured tourney with a weaker field are both going to have the same set of possible outcomes (i.e. the payout structure). I always thought that meant that tourney variance had only to do with payout structure and ROI, not blind strcture. Could you maybe show me a simple analogy to prove me wrong here?

billy roi has to do with structure

Im thinking Todd is talking more about finish distribution than $$ swongs. Everyone probably finishes closer to their average in a WPT than an EPT so an average or above average player will make day 2 a larger % of the time and at least feel like they have a shot

I personally am leaning towards the Deeb side in that I'd rather have the terrible players and mediocre structure, but it is nice to have a really good structure and EPTs are far away and expensive so I'm much more likely to play a non WSOP ME US 10k than an EPT next year.

Yeah.

This.

Hope to see you around, gl with whatever form of poker you decide on.

Simplest example would be identical ROI for 2 tourneys but a higher ITM% in one of them.

i told him to make SNE next year grinding full ring NL, and to make chiren his new arch nemesis. isn't that a good idea?