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QQ call off on river QQ call off on river

08-31-2010 , 10:02 PM
I've never posted a hand before, but if I'm going to stop being bad then I should start. Also, I have no tracking software so I can't provide stats.

Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t50 - 4 players - View hand 898896
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: t30714 M = 38.39
Hero (BB): t19166 M = 23.96
CO: t19560 M = 24.45
BTN: t30113 M = 37.64

Pre Flop: (t800) Hero is BB with Q Q
CO calls t400, BTN raises to t1300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t3600, 1 fold, BTN calls t2300

Flop: (t8000) T A 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (t8000) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t5500, Hero calls t5500

River: (t19000) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t12500, Hero calls t10016 all in

I've been playing with BTN for about 2 hours at this point, and I decided he would almost never check back aces or better on that flop, so when I check the turn, I'm pretty confident I have the best hand, and am also pretty confident he will bluff after being checked to twice, so I call planning to call most rivers if he bets again.

Now, was my 3-bet too small? Should I be betting or folding at any point before the river? Is this a river I should consider folding? Does my call on the turn commit me to call off on ANY river?

Edit- I should note that he tanked the river. Should this tip me off in any direction?
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 10:55 AM
Have any reads on how wide he's isolating preflop? Would help us range him. If he's aggressive preflop, he can have a wider range. If he's pretty tight or limps a lot, then an isolating range at these stakes is going to be like 99+, AJ+ (maybe a bit wider). In which case we beat pretty much nothing by the river. I'd also size the 3-bet a bit smaller, say 3400 just to give us a tad more flexibility postflop, but 3600 isn't bad.

Also, I'm not convinced by your read about him not checking an ace back on the flop. People play more cautiously in 3-bet pots, so he may be concerned that you are "trapping" him and proceed cautiously with a hand like AJ or even AK if he decided to flat it.

TBH, I think given how the stack sizes will be positioned by the river, if we call the turn, we have to call most rivers. Personally, I'd fold turn without an aggressive read.
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:13 AM
bet turn, bet flop, check/fold river. It would be much cheaper to put little less then 1/2 pot bets (like defensive bets) and get out of there.
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p0oint
bet turn, bet flop, check/fold river. It would be much cheaper to put little less then 1/2 pot bets (like defensive bets) and get out of there.
If you bet flop and turn, you'll be all in on the turn. In which case where you betting for value or bluffing?

Flop is a pretty standard check, there might be some merit to a 40% turn lead after checking flop and it would be interesting to hear discussion on that.
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenrebellion
If you bet flop and turn, you'll be all in on the turn. In which case where you betting for value or bluffing?

Flop is a pretty standard check, there might be some merit to a 40% turn lead after checking flop and it would be interesting to hear discussion on that.
I meant bet on all streets. And no you would not go all-in on river.

Flop is a pretty standard check?? Do not think so. If you do check with intention of check raising turn and face a call on turn your pretty much in the dark. I think that is very expensive option and not a optimal play.
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p0oint
I meant bet on all streets. And no you would not go all-in on river.

Flop is a pretty standard check?? Do not think so. If you do check with intention of check raising turn and face a call on turn your pretty much in the dark. I think that is very expensive option and not a optimal play.
You call out ftn_chris but you talk crap in every ****ing strat thread without backing it up. are you betting for value or not? i assume you have no idea...
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p0oint
I meant bet on all streets. And no you would not go all-in on river.

Flop is a pretty standard check?? Do not think so. If you do check with intention of check raising turn and face a call on turn your pretty much in the dark. I think that is very expensive option and not a optimal play.
You didn't answer my question. Are you bluffing or value betting?
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:51 AM
I bet 1/2 pot as a told you. On turn I will adjust the bet with respect to the stacks. So yes, I am indeed showing strength with my preflop raise and bets on flop and turn.
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p0oint
I bet 1/2 pot as a told you. On turn I will adjust the bet with respect to the stacks. So yes, I am indeed showing strength with my preflop raise and bets on flop and turn.
you must be leveling lol. value or bluff? answer the question fish
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 11:58 AM
Check flop is good and standard. He flatted our 3bet pre, big aces have to be in his range, and we essentially have second pair on an A high flop.

Sick spot on turn/river. Generally speaking I peel one street with a big pair on an A high board because people love to bluff rep the A, but stack sizes here make that very awkward. Fold turn is probably optimal but I probably call turn then fold river because I suck.

And you do realize that other than the other QQ, every other big pair that was behind got there by the river, right? So unless he flatted you pre with something like QJ or 99, pretty much every other hand got there (every A, KQ, TT, JJ and of course AA and KK were already ahead).
QQ call off on river Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok
you must be leveling lol. value or bluff? answer the question fish
Of course value bet. You must define your hand even if you lose it. I play it like this if I have no info on the opponent. About 1/2 pot size or little less is proper on flop and turn.

Last edited by p0oint; 09-01-2010 at 12:18 PM.
QQ call off on river Quote

      
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