QQ-40bb vs MP 3bet - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy No Limit Tournaments

QQ-40bb vs MP 3bet

Post Reply Subscribe

...

01-16-2013 , 03:36 PM

FluffyLaw

banned

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 65

Villain is 17/12(159 hands) with a 2.3% 3bet. Should this have been an easy fold pre or just variance/cooler? How do you make decision in these spots preflop + flop?

Like 60 players left 27 get paid; I was in 7th place at the time of hand.

Cake Poker, $4 Buy-in (500/1,000 blinds, 100 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15509961

MP3: 45,546 (45.5 bb)
CO: 18,682 (18.7 bb)
BTN: 24,380 (24.4 bb)
SB: 50,002 (50 bb)
BB: 6,455 (6.5 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): 40,948 (40.9 bb)
UTG+2: 19,132 (19.1 bb)
MP1: 29,123 (29.1 bb)
MP2: 11,176 (11.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q

Hero raises to 2,700, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to 5,255, 6 folds, Hero calls 2,555

Flop: (12,910) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets 5,885, Hero raises to 35,593 and is all-in, MP1 calls 17,883 and is all-in

Turn: (60,446) 4

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (60,446) T

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Quote

01-16-2013 , 03:55 PM

DDunkinstein

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 368

V's 3b is really tiny 4b pre OOP

Quote

01-16-2013 , 04:06 PM

fidstar-poker

I'm gonna need a hacksaw

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 33,548

2,300 to 2,500 pre

As played I get it in pre.

As played gii on the flop is fine.

Quote

01-16-2013 , 04:27 PM

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,542

QQ does not play well against QQ+/AK

if he is 3betting with JJ/AQ+ or TT/AQ+ this is still a bad flop and we should ch/call the flop and either bet/fold all brick turns or ch/f the turn

Quote

01-16-2013 , 04:45 PM

FluffyLaw

banned

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 65

i shouldve let it go vs this opponent. Hard time letting it go

Sent from my HTC Glacier using 2+2 Forums

Quote

01-16-2013 , 05:34 PM

eh777

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,746

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

QQ does not play well against QQ+/AK

if he is 3betting with JJ/AQ+ or TT/AQ+ this is still a bad flop and we should ch/call the flop and either bet/fold all brick turns or ch/f the turn

Sorry but that advice is pretty shocking, you can't be folding Q,Q here with 40bb

Last edited by eh777; 01-16-2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: thought you were someone else

Quote

01-16-2013 , 07:15 PM

kamikaze baby

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,971

Of course you can fold QQ 40bb deep; it all depends on your opponents. Raise smaller pre, against this opponent just flat the 3bet since it's QQ+ or AK basically always and you aren't a favourite against that range. Assuming this villain won't stack off with AK on a miss, then if you bet and get raised on any J high flop, you can fold QQ and be almost certain you've made the right decision. And you'd still have a lot of chips left.

Quote

01-16-2013 , 08:16 PM

DjHitzz

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,215

only folding if I have SOULREADS, obv not folding flop.

Quote

01-16-2013 , 08:18 PM

Dragons_Egg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,861

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

QQ does not play well against QQ+/AK

if he is 3betting with JJ/AQ+ or TT/AQ+ this is still a bad flop and we should ch/call the flop and either bet/fold all brick turns or ch/f the turn

Generally I don't think it's a mistake to gii pre for 30 BB's eff with QQ, but the above was pretty much my exact thoughts as well when I read the hand and considered it against an opponent with these stats. I think this type of line is at least worth considering.

Opponents pre 3 bet is 2.3% on average. In this situation he's 3-betting a UTG opener from another ep position with 30 BB's. I think his 3-bet range here is hella tight.

Quote

01-17-2013 , 03:52 PM

#10

wtfisthisbs

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 227

For PF...vs that 3B range IMO QQ is at the bottom of his value range.

On the flop it can go either way, player dependent. Say if he's weak tight and is very aggressive on the flop and turn you could fold.

Quote

01-18-2013 , 11:57 AM

#11

JoeyJoJo Shabadu

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,355

B/f the flop. He doesn't raise you in a 3 bet hand with anything that doesn't have you crushed.

TT JJ have you beat. KK AA have you beat. AQ, AK are probabaly just folding if you donk a pot that big.

Quote

01-18-2013 , 07:10 PM

#12

Hand Shaker

self-banned

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3,094

2.3% 3b over a decent sample. I bet his OPR doesn't include many deep runs either being he's this nitty. Your ship is bad because he can play perfectly and he really won't fold anything that's ahead of us. AJ is prob not in his 3b range...he prob folds or flats pre.

Everyone wanting to cram pre or otf is just clicking buttons with a cookie cutter plan that's not villain specific.

Quote

01-18-2013 , 07:19 PM

#13

ssnyc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

Wtf is going on here...

This is not a 40bb spot...effective stacks are 29bb and that's all that matters

Just 4 bet shove

Quote

01-18-2013 , 07:48 PM

#14

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,090

4b/gii or 4b shove and run good imo.

If we put him on JJ+/AK We can't flat 3b oop w QQ and play post coz we guna get stacked anyway by KK+ when we have an overpair OTF, and flatting pre to c/f when an A or a K hits OTF is pretty bad with all the dead money in there preflop. Only time im folding QQ pre is if it goes like 5b/6b shove by nits.

Cool cooler bro.

Last edited by wowsooooted; 01-18-2013 at 08:06 PM. Reason: flatting pre is proly worse than folding

Quote

01-19-2013 , 02:15 PM

#15

eh777

banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,746

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssnyc

Wtf is going on here...

This is not a 40bb spot...effective stacks are 29bb and that's all that matters

Just 4 bet shove

Quote

01-19-2013 , 11:14 PM

#16

TheWard

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 123

i categorize this as a cooler. less then 30 bb in a 4.40 tourney. i say go for it with queens. yeah i know he has tight 3 bet range but don't tell me jj ak and maybe even 1010 ar not in it

Quote

01-19-2013 , 11:15 PM

#17

TheWard

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 123

oh and get it in pre flop imo

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...