Full hand replay on GG: https://gg.gl/f9xfu

Final table, $2.1k for first, 7 left. I have about 18 BB at start of this hand, which puts me at 4/7.

QJo, 18bb on BTN v SB who we cover + BB who has us slightly covered.

My thinking at the time was that minopening here would give the BB a great spot to ship super light, which he seemed v capable of doing (solid mid-stakes reg, $900k lifetime cashes). I do obv have fold equity vs him though so at the time shipping didn't seem like a terrible option with him being 3/7 and 2 players with 10-14bb stacks.

In hindsight seems pretty splashy, so wanted to check in here. What's our standard play here, and what's our play vs a BB who we know is capable of reshipping v light here?

I will always minraise here.

If we shove and get called we have bad odds of winning.

If we get 3-bet to say 6 bb's it is not an easy spot and I will sometimes fold depending on how wide the range is of the 3-bettor. If the 3-bet is to 7 bb's or more I will just fold because it is an invitation to get it all in on the flop. Mostly though the 3-bet will be a jam, due to effective stack size, and I will fold.

I prefer playing this hand in position. We can determine what to do based on the flop and its range for blind callers. Often we will win if a K or A hits the flop and we we cbet.

Having hands that we will min/fold gives our opponent incentive to jam lighter than if he knew we always called after min raising.

This seems like a fine hand to min/fold.

At these stack depths, I'll basically only jam small pairs and Axo combos. Hands that have equity when called but play poorly post. This hand is almost the exact opposite. We are never in good shape when we jam and get called, and QJo plays fine post flop.

I think the main focus of this spot should be our relative stack size. As 4/7 I think raise/fold like the above posters said is ideal but if you are 6/7 or 7/7 I think your hand becomes too good to r/f here (for some of the reasons you mentioned in OP) so I prefer a jam then. I don't think your hand is in terrible shape when called at all , you're flipping 77,88,99,TT and not that far behind AK ATs but also agree the hand has plenty of post flop playability v the BB wide defending range.

It's good to get in habit of viewing every decision as a multiple choice option. In this spot our hand is too good to fold, we're never limping here, we aren't raise/calling, so suddenly you're down to either Jam or raise/fold. And if you think villains are capable of re-jamming 22-55/Axs hands trying to pressure us, I think our hand would be a bit too strong to raise/fold. If villains are going to play more honest and won't rejam those hands, then you have a slam dunk raise/fold situation. Pay attention to player reads + relative stack sizes for these spots. Real close one and can't fault you for going either way.

I might also add considering risk to reward when contemplating the jam. How does picking up the 2.5bb in the middle change our relative standing stack wise to the field? In this situation the pick up really doesn't even gain us a ton of ground on the chip leaders to risk going out 7th when we are 4/7. Whereas, if the chip leaders were all only ~5-10bbs bigger than us, the reward might be more commensurate w the risk.

This is a standard r/f hand. It plays well postflop and doesn't have enough equity if called. You could shove small pps, Axs, and better high card hands than this. If it was KJo or QJs, then maybe OK to shove.

HRC actually showing it as a shove after I plugged in all payouts, stacks, etc on Monte Carlo model. No idea how accurate that is given that it's my first time using it.

Royal, is it shoving all the green hands? No min raise option?

It is saying it is a profitable shove, probably cEV. Obviously, you don't shove AA for 18xBB. Some people make the mistake of shoving everything it says you can shove.

I would shove a little bit stronger high card hands. Definitely shoving KQo/KJs. Not shoving TT+/AK. Would raise/call the top of my range and r/f the bottom. Might have some limps, but QJo plays better as a r/f than a limp. Limping would mean you would have to fold more, as you get raised more and don't want to limp/call or limp/shove with QJo. The open shove might not lose much, but might be $EV- as you want to stay alive in tournaments.

There are different ways to construct your ranges. This hand seems like a r/f, but close to a shoving range.

Some players still don't have an open shoving range with 18xBB, but like 33/A3s/ATo etc. play better as shoves than raise/folds or raise/calls.

Min raise/fold and if you can’t do that just fold pre.

That chart sucks.

Ripping QJos for 18bb 4/7 is spew.

Yup, agreed w/ all of what you said.

Re: the chart, seems I made some mistakes in the input, need to play around with HRC a bit more.

In weak fields, I have no jams at 18BB, except from the SB versus a weak passive player. In stronger fields, I will shove as deuce suggests, the hands with good hot/cold equity but poor visibility post.

I don't ever have a limping strategy. This might be costing me ev, but playing post as the limper versus infinite ranges is something I haven't studied. I don't see it much as a proper strategy from others, although they do limp off bigger stacks.

QJo is near the top of my r/f range. I would be shoving good but not great high card hands, as well as hands that plays poorly postflop, like small pps and Axs. It is also OK to raise/decide like KJs. Open folding QJo is generally a mistake, as the hand plays pretty well when the BB flats, and you need r/fs to balance whatever you r/gii range is. Open shoving is also a mistake.

I would rather openfold than jam. R/f looks fine to me, you have blockers to their jamming ranges and if called then your kicker is almost always good if you flop top pair

Yeah, open fold may be better than jam. However, this is near the top of your r/f range and it would be awful to not have r/fs. Limp is not good, but maybe the second best option.

Think of it this way. QJo is in good shape against a BB defend range. However, any hand that 3! and certainly any hand that calls a shove is ahead or dominating. It almost always is a pp, A, or K.

It is a big leak not to have raise/folds short stacked. Some people don't r/f with like 12xBB and get very imbalanced. It is possible to have limp/folds also. It isn't good to just shove everything and only raise big hands.

You want to be somewhat weighted to strong raise/gii hands real short, because it can be tricky to play postflop, but you need to be somewhat balanced.

think what is wrong with the sim you provided

QJo is almost always rf in 99% of cases when you have 15bb or more from the btn or earlier in a non pko

Looks like the sim might be a pure push/fold sim - shoving QJo might be profitable (albeit barely, it seems) but that doesn't mean it's more profitable than a standard open.

I'm also not sure why K3s and T3s specifically show up as jams. Any ideas?