6 max multitable tournament, in the money.


1st position / under the gun fold
2nd position / hijack fold
3rd position / cutoff fold
hero 13x bb 9s9c
sb 20x bb
bb 20x bb

do we have a raising range here?
a limping range?
a shoving range?

with 8-15 bb i can make an argument for all three options.

The only argument for limping is we have a good read that one of the blinds loves to attack limpers with raises. Likewise the only argument for minraising is we have a good read that one of the blinds will shove on us.

Absent those reads, shoving is by far the best play.

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don't really have a read but I think 22-55 fold to a shove but would shove over a limp or minraise.

Sure, but the hands that shove make up a tiny portion of their ranges. Have to balance it against the discomfort of playing this postflop if you limp/minraise and they limp/call.

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99 is actually in the GTO limping range, if you choose to have one.

Realistically, you want to split your range into either minr/jam/fold or limp/jam/fold. Limps/min raises/and jams going to be too difficult to balance.


I do not have a limping range here and would minr here with 99. But it does appear that a limping strat may capture slightly more EV throughout your range plus you get to limp protfitably with a few hands that you would normally fold.


Shoving 99 isnt bad either, it just may be giving up a tad bit of EV.

i feel like if i am going to play shove / fold from 15 bb downwards that is going to end up getting it in behind and some point end ending there often.

where the games are so active that getting a payout is just being patient a bit. I like to have a limp folding range here.
maybe limp 20% limp/ call 10% or so. and shove 10% or something.

this is an estimate from nash resources.
ICM
BU 43.3%, 22+ Ax K2s+ K9o+ Q2s+ Q9o+ J5s+ J9o+ T6s+ T8o+ 96s+ 98o 86s+ 75s+ 65s 54s
SB 9.4%, 77+ A8s+ ATo+ KQs
BB 1.8%, JJ+
BB 12.2%, 66+ A7s+ A9o+ KJs+ KQo

playing to win:
BU 35.7%, 22+ Ax K4s+ K9o+ Q7s+ QTo+ J7s+ JTo T7s+ T9o 97s+ 86s+ 76s 65s
SB 20.8%, 33+ A2s+ A6o+ K9s+ KTo+ QTs+
BB 12.7%, 55+ A8s+ ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs
BB 25.2%, 22+ A2s+ A3o+ K9s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs

i am quite comfortable playing a couple of hands in position.
In the SB I like shoving it a lot more.

For me, 12-15 BBs is in the 'skill range'. If I am better than the remains players, I will min raise all* opens. If I am worse, I will jam all opens.

There is some wiggle room with certain hands with bad EqR that I might just always jam with, but I think the skill factor is a gib one here.

I will always jam here with 99 with <15 bb's.

We will often get ATo to fold and sometimes AJo. I get that TT+ will never fold and we could avoid being 20% if we min raise/fold to jam but I prefer not to do that with 99. We are 54% against AK/AQ/AJ/KQ so I prefer not to go there.

Ha I like this thought but is there really a skill advantage when playing 12-15bb effective? I mean if you min open and sb or bb calls. It’s like almost 100% cbet honesty regardless of the
Flop and one villian oop. It gets kinda dicey when we cbet say QJ3 and they peel. Normally we shut down turn and river.

I think In spot op stated- I like min open or shove. Really depends. If blinds are super spewy and will call too much, prolly shove bc 99 is hard to play so shallow post. We should cbet super small against 1 villian but hand sucks if villian calls and we don’t have overpair to a board. Jam is perfectly fine and +ev so will never fault that. I feel jam also looks slightly weaker. I like min open bc we don’t face a quick elimination from tourny if we run into AK or monster. Just we have to call off if someone jams behind unless it goes like open, call, jam jam. I feel min open should be hands like kk AA Ak AQ (hands to induce) and maybe some broadways. Never bad to have some more med strength hands in the min open camp bc if we are only min opening KK/ AA to induce- not great event though we will rarily see the same villians in live game
That can pick up on this.

yeah the skill in limping is that people jam j8o because their wife asked them to make dinner and they have to quit the tourney.

also we can limp / fold TJs here.

I don't think 44 c/calls the flop A3 might c/raise allin. I don't like cbetting and shutting down.

yeah but what do we do with TJ or QJ then? I think shoving can be pretty uggly when they are loose.

what software do you use?

I am mixed about JTo and QJo in this spot. I will generally shove unless the blinds are people who will typically call with hands like KJ/KQ (which is sort of rare).

The other factor is my image. If they have seen me turn over a hand like K7s or QT which I raised with (and got to showdown) then it changes my range entirely, at least for a while until I can jam/raise with like TT+/AQ+ and turn it over. I actually sometimes turn over hands like AA/KK/AK when everyone has folded to show that I am a tight jammer/raiser. You will see some people turn over an A when they raise/jam LP often as if that means they had a strong hand...

Yes, there is still a big skill advantage. Take a look at some of the defending range for the BB; they are supposed to continue with ~79% of their range. The jamming range is mostly intuitive; pairs, the big and little Ax, KQo, JT/T9s, with just AA as a trap (I tend to play KK as a trap there as well). How many of 'us' are getting even this right? It wouldn't occur to me to call stuff like J3o, Q2o, and the worst suited stuff, but they are all calls.

On to the flop. Short stack play is very different post as well. We are all used to checking to the preflop raiser. What percentage of the time is BB defender leading on 8x75cc? If you get close to this, congratulations, you understand short stack play better than most.




I could go on, but you can see there is plenty to short stack play. This is why people like Matt Berkey, who is used to playing 200BB+ feel disadvantaged in tournaments. A lot of the game play is at these stack depths, especially when the $ is big.

shoving when getting called by 10% in SB and 15% in BB end's in getting it in bad the 4th shove.

How about when the hand is 16x BB deep.