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PokerStars MTT Thread PokerStars MTT Thread

04-25-2016 , 07:23 AM
Don't have time to write a long post but I'll post a few feelings:

-I feel as though Stars could have perhaps promoted the new schedule a bit more in client, some players who wouldn't otherwise play MTT's could be tempted to take a look and fire.

-Definitely think the schedule lacks a couple of reg speed FO's at the lower-mid buy in level. The 1r1a format was also a popular tournament, which I feel could still be included successfully in the schedule.

- Please be proactive with the Guarantees to grow the games!

A lot of good points made by others in the thread, overall I'm impressed with the new schedule, but improvements can definitely be made!
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04-25-2016 , 07:28 AM
5 Card Draw Suggestions:

Bring back the $5.50 PL 5 card draw tourneys, or at least increase the buy in for the $1.1 or $2.2 ones.
You`ve made them 1.5 hours of late reg. and the prize pool is $100?? It doesn`t even go above the gtd prize pool, you will get even less players after a week of such experiment.
At least make them turbo and re-buy instead of re-entry.

You want people to play several hours for $25 1st place?

this kills the Draw poker.
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04-25-2016 , 07:32 AM
Hi all,

I find the changes made to MTT's are disgraceful, turning a regular speed tournament into essentially a turbo just doesn't make any sense. Isn't that the reason why we have turbo's and reg tournaments?

The big and bounty builder events are a joke, I used to love these tournaments and now they have lost the appeal. 7 min levels for bounty's I mean I just don't understand what is trying to be achieved. The"big" and "bounty" tournaments are the biggest draw cards Poker Stars, don't touch a good thing.

For someone like me who is trying to get somewhere in poker through MTT's, moving up to higher buy ins, has just made it even more difficult and more of a gamble than before. And to have a sliding scale of blind level times from your high buy in to micro is a bit of a kick in the teeth for us low level buy in players. I would have it a guess that if you asked people the question would you like to make a living out of poker most people would say yes. How do you do that? cashing and moving up through buy ins. Faster blind levels? more of a gamble, more risks need to be taken and less chance of achieving the goal of moving up buy ins.

One positive of the reformat is there are more tournaments for Australian and Asian players which is great.

Maybe a compromise is to add more tournaments with the old 10/12 min blind levels. I would suggest the "Big" and bounty tournaments to be rolled back to the old blind format and other tournaments are half new blind structure half old. Maybe you could even add the new speed called semi-turbo.

Last edited by AUSkid89; 04-25-2016 at 07:44 AM.
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04-25-2016 , 07:40 AM
I will definitely miss the 215 daily turbo at 20.45 CET time.

Working a lot, the most important and viable tournaments for me on week days (time zone CET, that is London +1, like is in all western europe but England and Portugal) are the ones I can start around 20h and that finish around midnight or 1 am. Was typically the case of the 215 turbo, starting at 20.45, as well as the hot 82 starting at 20.30, and as well as the daily 320 that used to start at 18.30 but in which one could register until 20.00 and that used to finish at around 1.00 the next morning.

These were perfect for working europeans and I am afraid there won't be as nice a schedule now. Hot 109 looks nice but I wished the 320 would start at 20.00 instead of 20.45 since it now has 45 min of late reg.
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04-25-2016 , 07:51 AM
Longer blind levels in smaller buy in Mtts . The whole schedule is essentially turbos if I want to play turbos I would play the hots 10m or even 8 .10 .12 increase as we get deeper Ffs . I I'll give it a few days to see do pokerstars sort this out I will take my custom to party or 888
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04-25-2016 , 07:55 AM
I'm so confused. I'm looking for a good time to jump in and reg but I can't find a good spot lol. Just wow. I thought everyone was being more pessimistic then me about everything. But Luke my posts on this thread get deleted fairly quickly when I call you out.

Buttt

So you ignore our ideas about minis for ages and now entire days are based around a theme and their minis.

You also listened and added a 1K on Sunday's. Good.

You made it unplayable basically. Bad.

Luke giveth and taketh away?

Last edited by Yenomez; 04-25-2016 at 08:02 AM.
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04-25-2016 , 08:08 AM
bounty builders had perfect structures before changes. if its not broke dont fix it...

82bb is now 30b eff 6handed, where as compared to last week it would be around 50bb. regs and regs want to play longer at ft for big payjumps...

dont know if this was your decision or someone from above, but i hope u will listen and make bigs and bbs 8/10/12 so theyre both playable when money is on the line.

your argument about not making money after 4-5 hours is invalid. iirc b109 was itm after 3rd break around 800bb/1k bb and i think everyone was pretty happy with that. the problem was by the time ft was reached most of the times it was around 20-25b eff and thats no one liked. thats where 12m blinds should kick in. now we have to wait for money longer and the whole payout table is a complete joke, but i guess this is 100% upper management decision and theres no point in even trying to persuade u to reverse it. just be honest sometimes and dont try to make idiots out of us all the time.

thx
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04-25-2016 , 08:17 AM
PokerStars 2020 Announcement:

We have new and excitement news for you. We have improve our MTT schudule, and now the Bigs are renamed as the GigaStacks. You now get 10,000 chips from start. 1st level is 500/1000 and 2 minutes level jump, because we know you like action. Rake on those are getting a tiny jump from 18% to 19%.

PokerStars. We are NL Hold'em
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04-25-2016 , 08:19 AM
Why can't all the bigs have 10/12 blinds like the majors? I am ok with the bounty builder structures as a compromise, but put that major structure on the bigs too pls

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
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04-25-2016 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake-glory
Totally agree. They have changed all the freezouts into turbo now and said that they are still reg speed lol.

If people want to play some fast structure they will play turbo or hypers obviously. All we have now is turbos and hypers...
+1 for this. Took away tons of the regular speed freezeouts, reduced length of blind levels, added a bunch of weird hyper-turbos that are garbage.
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04-25-2016 , 08:31 AM
Hey Luke I don't necessarily mind the bounty builder structures, but you def got it wrong with these bigs structures. Currently looking at the lobby of the b22, and this is how stacks are set up with last 30.



so basically the chipleader only has 35bbs, and avg is just 21bbs. that's pretty unacceptable for your flagship regspeed tournaments. please adjust this as fast as possible.
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04-25-2016 , 08:37 AM
I see through this pile of crap.

There is a three hour late reg for all the new daily majors. Now I see the point of the new schedule. Pokerstars need room for players to register tournaments and when the late reg ends, the structure accelerate. That's why the 5ks and extra levels were added in the early play. From there on out, it's a turbo. The player experience? C'mon Luke, it's a rake grab!

The Big 2.2 screenshot is shocking. 6 players left in a 1.359 player field and the tourney has been running for 6 minutes and 3 seconds. Three people with 10 BBs or less. Five people with less than 17 bbs. And that's in a $2 tournament. THAT'S A TURBO.
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04-25-2016 , 08:40 AM
0.11$ turbo gone
0.27$ turbo gone
0.82$ turbo gone

wtf?
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04-25-2016 , 08:45 AM
-my proposal for the bigs would be:

0-10$: 7 mins for 15 level, 8 until level 30, 9 until level 45 and from there on 10 mins
11$+ : increasing level lengths like above every 15 levels but start from 8 then 9,10,12 mins

-the splash tourneys are a huge ripoff, lol at that raked rebuys and giving them the 3x satty structure
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04-25-2016 , 08:53 AM
Just give us 3000 starting chips back an normal blind this is fuc.ing ridiculous the new schedule apart from the majors is **** struggling to find more the two mtts at the resorting to regging sit&goes not a normal speed freezout in site stars is well an truly dead , an for the guys who helped him create this schedule from two plus two shame on you what a joke
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04-25-2016 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKE MANEY
-my proposal for the bigs would be:

0-10$: 7 mins for 15 level, 8 until level 30, 9 until level 45 and from there on 10 mins
11$+ : increasing level lengths like above every 15 levels but start from 8 then 9,10,12 mins

-the splash tourneys are a huge ripoff, lol at that raked rebuys and giving them the 3x satty structure
why? a big its a big for every player, dosent mather that he plays 1$ or 11$ or 55$ buy in, same structure in all bigs.
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04-25-2016 , 08:58 AM
na i think having such massive fields in the lower buyins means bigs should get slower the more expensive they get. weekend big11 was a 13 hour affair
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04-25-2016 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08
na i think having such massive fields in the lower buyins means bigs should get slower the more expensive they get. weekend big11 was a 13 hour affair
We enjoy playing long touneys or we would t play them if we want to play a tourney what last 5hours we would play the hots at the very least the bigs at all stakes should play 8,10,12 on weekends an 8,9,10 weekdays
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04-25-2016 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneuy3
Rather than make sarcastic remarks regarding the new structure why not try and lend suggestions on how Pokerstars(Luke) can improve upon the current structure to have it more in line with what PokerStars and the players want in their MTTs.
Does not all the changes required are so obvious that everyone with a brain should feel a bit shy to repeat those things 100+ times? (Look at: T500, Minis, etc).

But if you wish:

- Don't treat micro- and low-stakes guys like brainless monkeys.

We love the game of poker and we want to play the game of poker. Nothing else. Why on the earth low-stakers does not have reg-speed freezout MTTs now at all?



Only 15 MTTs during 7 hours, only TWO reg-speed FO with 10 min levels. Surreal.
In addition 3 interesting Bounty Builders which cannot be counted as good-old reg-speed FOs tho.

Overall, 4 Deep Stacks (10 min lvls lol) during the whole day and THAT'S IT!
(Funniest thing is that there's 4 Ante Ups in addition, which get cancelled, just replace them with some good stuff, ffs)

As a consequence:

- Increase levels in new 8-max's up to 10 minutes.
- Add several $7.50, $11 8-max during the peak time.
- Add some $2.20+R or some $4.40+R.
- Add several regular speed multi-table tournaments $3.30-$11.

Moreover,

- Make low-mid Bigs playable.

It seems like Bounty Builders have OK-ish stacks late, but the Bigs are total joke now.
There was a lot of talks on VLT. The most obvious and really great decision is: to make it 8/10/12. How it could be possible that 4-digit payouts are the subjects of the pure gambling?

Today's Big $33 final table lasts no longer than 40 minutes, with avg stacks 15-20BBs on it. How it could be possible that flagship daily series becomes crapshoot when it comes to really big money?

Then, sattys.

Why do you get rid of Turbo, Deep format for Bigs?

There's some Bigs that still has those, but mostly it was turned into hypers.
Now, if we look at the whole Big's satellite offering, it's pretty obvious that it is almost does not exist.

I hope this is some sort of a mistake, since it's unbelievable, every Big now has not more than 3 sats.

So,

- Add more Turbo, Deep and rebuy sats letting low-stakes guys to play at least something now at your site.

That's it.

Last year I've played like ~6000 MTTs at PS with ABI $8.

Now I highly doubt I will open PS again ever after the SCOOP.

I never thought, I ever make it but... Yestreday I've downloaded PartyPoker client.
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04-25-2016 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke
Hey all,

This is going to be a long post, but I first wanted to say that I'm extremely encouraged to see all the feedback coming in. All feedback is read and considered when making decisions about the schedule.

It is impossible to get it perfect on the first go. A lot of tinkering and massaging will be happening over the coming weeks. I'd suggest reading the entire post because I'll be explaining a lot of reasoning behind the decisions.


I'm curious to see what happens with the Big $162 because of its time slot. The Big $215 just replaces the current $162 so I expect similar performance.



Currently, we have seven Omanias. Four PLO, one PLO8, and two NLO8. The new schedule has four of each which represents an increase in the number of split pot games. All of the new Omanias have non-branded "minis" an hour later. I'm interested to see how the new 3-Stack 6-max format performs but I haven't seen much feedback regarding it. Is anyone more likely to try Omania due to the format change?



It isn't a mistake. I want our brands to have some different defining features. I think it would be a bit boring if the Bigs and Bounty Builders were completely the same aside from the progressive element. I wanted to give each brand some flavor where possible.



Overall, I do think tournaments need to be shortened some amount. I've made the conversion from professional to recreational player and my single biggest consideration of if I play a tournament or not is its length. If I am going to play 4-5 hours, not make the money, and be exhausted for work, I'm not interested. I acknowledge that this doesn't apply to our biggest weekly tournaments, but I think we need to draw a fine line in the daily schedule.



5K chip stacks, Minis, overlapping Bigs/Hots/Bounty Builders during peak, more pink satellites, and numerous others were all suggestions from players here and have been featured in the new schedule.



Yes, thanks! There's likely a few more small errors like this lurking.



The guarantee was changed due to the new structure for Splash tournaments. I believe the new structure provides approximately the same amount of play during the rebuy period but starts a bit shallower. Another suggestion implemented from this forum is the time bank in these tournaments. Players start with 10 seconds and receive an additional 10 seconds after level six. This rewards those who register in the first 30 minutes. Players then receive four additional seconds after level 12 and another 15 after level 18.



The Hotter/Bigger versions have been removed, but the guarantees are all the same. I don't think those tournaments need any more highlighting on Sunday. All of the focus is on the majors.



90+% of ring game action in NLO8/PLO8 is 6-max. As far as I know, the original reason Omania was 9-max is because it presented an opportunity to encourage NLHE MTT players to try the Omaha games. The change to 6-max in the new schedule represents a new strategy. I think it has the potential of being a very positive change for the Omaha games overall. Perhaps we'll encourage some ring game players to expand their play into tournaments, grow the guarantees and buy-ins, etc.



I believe this will grow the prize pools in these games, leading to more players trying them. Snowball effect ensues.



Any specific suggestions? I do not think the red text was doing much for the non-NLHE games on the weekends. In my opinion, they diminished the importance of the marquee tournaments we were offering around them.

I also think the buy-ins were extremely prohibitive and made it unlikely new players would try the games.

I vastly prefer encouraging as many players as possible to try the games versus catering to 20-50 players per week in the $82/$215s. Again, I'm happy to make some adjustments, but I think everyone should be on board with having more players try the games. To bolster this argument, I want to mention that we are offering more non-NLHE tournaments overall by a significant amount. We all want the games to thrive, we just seem to disagree about the strategy. Again, I'm happy to receive specific suggestions and feedback!



I'm open to changing the structure after analyzing performance once we have a couple weeks worth of data.

It would be quite easy to change 7-8-9 blinds in the Bigs to 8-9-10, but I want to see how they do. A couple addition points for your consideration:
  • 5K starting stacks as opposed to 3K.
  • Early meaningless levels removed, of which there was near-unanimous agreement that it needed done.
  • I think tournaments need to be slightly shorter overall.

As far as comparing structures goes, remember that the new tournaments have 66% more chips in play.



15% antes are only in a few select higher stakes tournaments. I think those players will welcome the change.

I agree about the $320 6-Max. I'll change it to 10 minutes for Monday.



This tournament doesn't typically run on Saturday or Sunday. The guarantee will be adjusted after the first week, just like many, many others I'm sure.



They're all very close to each other because that is when the most players are on the site. We're casting a wider net by placing them at these times. I apologize if this makes it difficult to multi-table them, but I think the benefits outweigh the downside.



2-7 Single Draw does have a PKO. It runs as $11 at 13:13 daily, then with a $27 buy-in on Saturdays and $55 on Sundays. Many of the other big bet games have received similar treatments. This was a new addition!

Again, I want these games to be successful, so please provide specific suggestions on how to improve them.



I'll be working on guarantees nearly all of next week! It is difficult to predict participation especially when majors have been introduced and Bigs/Hots/Bounty Builders/Omania have been considerably expanded.



What I saw after rewriting the Sunday Storm, Warm-Up, Million, 500, etc. satellites last year is that less is more. More players qualified for the target with less satellites to each tournament. This is due to the ability to maintain higher guarantees in MTT satellites. I strongly believe the reduction in satellites will result in more players qualifying



Like the other games having a Saturday and Sunday special, I'm happy to apply a similar treatment to some PLO/PLO8/NLO8 tournaments. Any suggestions?



Not ready yet...



I choose to put a $700 tournament in that slot instead of the Sunday Rebuy to reduce cannibalization of the Sunday Million. While I don't think there was a huge number of players playing the Sunday Rebuy and then not being able to afford the Sunday Million, I consider it a top priority to protect the Sunday Million in the summer. I chose PKO because the Sunday Grand is a freezout.



They're better now!



There's more hyper-turbo, less turbo, and more regular speed.



Cheers!



We have all the time in the world to make changes! Thanks for the kind words.



Based on the tone of this thread, I'm going to need something stronger than wine.



Yes, we'll hopefully be changing that menu a bit in the future.



Thanks for the thoughts, always much appreciated. I don't think removing the PKO attribute from the Monday-Friday versions is the optimal strategy. Players will just want PKO all the time, as they seem to do...

It is entirely possible that the tournaments grow, the guarantees go up, and more additions are made.

As far as the structures go, the new tournaments will be very mid-paced. In the case of 2-7 Single Draw, players will start at 20/40/10 with 3,000 chips.

Lastly, the satellites to these games did not make or break the tournaments. In my opinion, they did very little to encourage players to try the format and were simply another game for fans of the format to play. We can always try creating some 6-handed SNGs to these new tournaments, but I do not think adding MTT satellites will create value.

I have a feeling you'll come back with many suggestions, which I look forward to reading!



The most popular non-red tournaments from the old schedule have stayed in the new schedule. Some have had minor changes. The early $8.80+R changed to $7.50+R, for instance.



I'm happy to receive specific suggestions!



The number of different buy-ins has been significantly reduced. I don't think it is a big deal to have two Big $7.50s instead of a Big $7.50 and Big $8.80



Hey, thanks for the thoughts. Those smaller freezeouts were removed just because of the addition of other tournaments at similar times. If they're all successful and these time zones begin to grow, we can add more tournaments back in.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! T-minus two days...
I just saw the new mtts and i was desapointed because of the new structure. Any hot will begin with a 4 min blind level witch is vvvv lame, hot its not hyper there for its no use to distroy them. Its ok to have ante from the first level but its not ok the downsize the level time, 5 min with this structure i think its ok (for now).
Big tournaments - are another bad joke, put the first 20 levels 10 min blind level and the next 50 levels 12 min blind level (there is no point to dissolve the skill of a plyer puting him to variation)
Bounty Bilders - The old structure was very good, dynamic in the begging of the tourney and very slow at the end...u could play poker...now watch the fts from today and u will see...8bb, 6bb...etc
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04-25-2016 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKE MANEY
-my proposal for the bigs would be:

0-10$: 7 mins for 15 level, 8 until level 30, 9 until level 45 and from there on 10 mins
11$+ : increasing level lengths like above every 15 levels but start from 8 then 9,10,12 mins

-the splash tourneys are a huge ripoff, lol at that raked rebuys and giving them the 3x satty structure
I don't agree with this.

Do you play lower stakes? Why should the blind levels be lower for us? If your a casual with limited time play a turbo. The format doesn't make sense, the so called reg speed tournaments are not reg, that is a huge flaw in the format.

Why should someone who has a larger bankroll enjoy 10-12-15 levels and the lower buyins get shafted to a gamble, luck wins you a tournament. All in shoving to survive pre flop.
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04-25-2016 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08
na i think having such massive fields in the lower buyins means bigs should get slower the more expensive they get. weekend big11 was a 13 hour affair
So the micro buy-ins player shouldnt be allowed to play big reg speed tournaments? Is that what you are saying?
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04-25-2016 , 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yo_yo
why? a big its a big for every player, dosent mather that he plays 1$ or 11$ or 55$ buy in, same structure in all bigs.
Exactly right
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04-25-2016 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turcin89
Structures are fine, and it's not Luke's fault that some people wait for QQ+ with 7bb.
Do u think that after just 5 hours its ok to have a final table at big 33 with 4 guys less then 10bb? Its not ok, its just crap, big 33 its not hot (a hot tourney lasts arround 5 hours..i dont know now, we will see today)

Last edited by yo_yo; 04-25-2016 at 09:20 AM.
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04-25-2016 , 09:14 AM
Hey Luke,
Been lurking around the forums for the good part of an year without having an account for the lazyness of creating one, thus I don't expect my opinion to be of any great matter(since it's also my first post), but still.
It's understandable that you are making a try with the new structures(which do look like they're taken from the .fr domain for the huge part, but your French market is largely constituted of weak recs and a tiny group of good regs, whereas it's a much more diverse player base in the main client), but this seems to be not working. It's also fair enough to gather the data of say a week or two, the latter probably being too much of a wait, before you make any final decision, but still. I personally don't believe that any significant part of the player base would love to go into a push/fold scenario once they reach the final two-three tables in what is supposed to be a highlighted daily reg speed event.
My overall impression is that the player base in the main client is much better than it is on the .fr -recs and regs alike - and people who enjoy the game and understand it to a certain extent like to have the opportunity to show their skills and match them with the skills of their opponents, rather than go into an all-in fight, based on the same (nash/push/fold)tables which we all know and use.
It would be greatly appreciated if you provide us with your thoughts on the matter. Is changing the blind levels for the Bigs on the table at all? If yes(hopefully) than to what extent, under what considerations and what can trigger it?

I would personally very much agree on some sort of a middle ground for this. For example - keeping the VLT, but improving it to match the significance of these events by say starting at 5 lvl - 7 mins; 5lvl - 8 mins; 10- 10mins; down to the final - 12 and 15 mins at the FT(if you have the technical ability to that, if not at 12 mins still). For the bigger buy-in dailys it could look similar with starting lvls at 8mins(and progressing in the same way) considering you've added ante from the beginning and they've now become much more important than before.

Once again, any feedback on this will be welcome, since this appears to be the main concern by far of the entire NLHE mtt player base.

On a side note, the Majors do look good and the reappearance of the Double Deuce is a lovely throwback to the good-old-days. I'd very much enjoy to be brought back in time by a couple of years while playing it, regardless of the change of structure and the diminished significance of the tourney - it cares the spirit of old
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