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Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off?

01-20-2012 , 04:09 PM
Just had this hand on Stars ($1.50 9 man SnG). Can someone please tell me if the second villan is correct to call the first villan's shove and my reshove on this flop (he had the nut flush draw).

PokerStars Hand #74183242881: Tournament #503492515, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2012/01/20 19:10:03 UTC [2012/01/20 14:10:03 ET]
Table '503492515 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: KingKris91 (3190 in chips)
Seat 3: raffo123 (2576 in chips)
Seat 6: przemoluk (1612 in chips)
Seat 7: Yvbo (3404 in chips)
Seat 8: Asnapa (1425 in chips)
Seat 9: Artem76yar (1293 in chips)
przemoluk: posts small blind 25
Yvbo: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KingKris91 [4d 4c]
Asnapa: folds
Artem76yar: calls 50
KingKris91: calls 50
raffo123: raises 100 to 150
przemoluk: folds
Yvbo: calls 100
Artem76yar: calls 100
KingKris91: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [4s 8s 5s]
Yvbo: checks
Artem76yar: bets 1143 and is all-in
KingKris91: raises 1897 to 3040 and is all-in
raffo123: calls 2426 and is all-in
Yvbo: folds
Uncalled bet (614) returned to KingKris91
*** TURN *** [4s 8s 5s] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [4s 8s 5s Ac] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
KingKris91: shows [4d 4c] (three of a kind, Fours)
raffo123: shows [As Qd] (a flush, Ace high)
raffo123 collected 2566 from side pot
Artem76yar: shows [9c 9h] (a pair of Nines)
raffo123 collected 4054 from main pot
Artem76yar finished the tournament in 6th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6620 Main pot 4054. Side pot 2566. | Rake 0
Board [4s 8s 5s Ac Qs]
Seat 2: KingKris91 showed [4d 4c] and lost with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 3: raffo123 (button) showed [As Qd] and won (6620) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: przemoluk (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Yvbo (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Asnapa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Artem76yar showed [9c 9h] and lost with a pair of Nines


I want to say as well before anyone comments on it I very rarely limp in pre flop, the table was passive and it was a great spot to try and set mine.
I also tanked it for a good while before reshoving my 4's, as I had to think it through whether the first villan would shove a small flush (unlikely) or a bigger set on the flop (which could have been a possibility considering how wet the board was).
Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
01-21-2012 , 12:55 AM
With t600, player with 99 shove is correct.

Your re raise all in is standard.

Player with aq has the right odds to call in that draw. Try to put yourself in his place:

Player A raise all in with a straight and no spades, top par/top kicker, and in the worst case with a weak flush.

You are isolating your hand so you its possible you are handling: weak flush, overpair with no spades, st8, 2 pairs or a set. He has 2 overcards plus the nut flush draw with 3-1 pot odds. If he improves to win the hand knocking 2 players his stack makes him a huge favourite to finish first.

I wouldnt call in his place but without analising the maths i guess his move is ev+.
Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
01-21-2012 , 02:08 AM
    Poker Stars, $1.29 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11671092

    Hero (CO): 3,190 (63.8 bb)
    BTN: 2,576 (51.5 bb)
    SB: 1,612 (32.2 bb)
    BB: 3,404 (68.1 bb)
    UTG: 1,425 (28.5 bb)
    MP: 1,293 (25.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 4 4
    UTG folds, MP calls 50, Hero calls 50, BTN raises to 150, SB folds, BB calls 100, MP calls 100, Hero calls 100

    Flop: (625) 4 8 5 (4 players)
    BB checks, MP bets 1,143 and is all-in, Hero raises to 3,040 and is all-in, BTN calls 2,426 and is all-in, BB folds

    Turn: (6,620) A (3 players, 3 are all-in)
    River: (6,620) Q (3 players, 3 are all-in)




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    Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
    01-21-2012 , 02:24 AM
    pot odds say he needs to win 36% to make this chipev. there is ICM tax and only the flush draw might be a little thin.

    but its a 1$ game and opponents there come up with all sort of crazy hands. he has reason to believe that any A/Q makes him the best hand too. you said you tanked before you reshoved => 1 more reason for a call with AQ
    Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
    01-21-2012 , 06:37 AM
    I think his call with 2 overcards and the Q high flush draw was too thin.
    Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
    01-21-2012 , 09:06 AM
    To make money in SNGs, the important thing is for you to make the correct play every time. It will certainly help your ROI if the villian does not to make the correct play.

    However in this case, I would have shoved your hand and I think the villian made a mistake.

    He is getting a little over 2 1/2 to 1 to call. I can't imagine he thinks is A or Q are outs. If he has nine outs to the nut flush, he is around 36% to make it.

    Since he sees a shove and a call on a board with all spades. I can't imagine he thinks he could have nine clear outs here.
    Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote
    01-21-2012 , 09:32 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willperkins
    I can't imagine he thinks ...
    You can stop your sentence right there. There aren't too many thinking villains at this level. Focus on your own play - your shove was correct.
    Is this person correct to call 2 shoves with A,Q off? Quote

          
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