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Overplayed TT ? Overplayed TT ?

07-02-2022 , 01:15 PM
CO: 22.62 BB
BTN: 28.31 BB - 29/18/7 over 126 hands
SB: 29.72 BB
BB: 78.75 BB
Hero (UTG): 119.54 BB

5 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.12 BB) Hero has T T

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 119.41 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 21.18 BB and is all-in

I believe I suck at these situations. 20-30ish BB deep, with a premium-but-not-a-monster hand.

If I did the maths right, I need 45% equity here (assuming zero FE).
And I don't think I get 45% against his range.
I mean, considering the HUD stats and his stack depth, he's not 3betting A5s or things like that.

So should I just let go ?
Feels too weak, but IDK
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-02-2022 , 11:44 PM
What about a call?
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-02-2022 , 11:58 PM
That's not the nittiest of 3bets I disagree that he could never have A5s considering we are 5 handed

I think it's fine to jam, your stack could handle, other option is
calling which seems better than folding but the jam is prob fine
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-12-2022 , 10:02 AM
Your jam is good here but I believe it's close to the bottom of range (99+ AQ+ perhaps in this exact instance) Something important that doesn't get talked about all too often- short stacked villains don't tend to 3b bluff against the big stacks nearly as often as vice versa. (this also presents bluffing opportunities for us against savvy players when we are shorter/they're bigger). I think calling is going to present a lot of problematic post flop spots (over cards hitting over 2/3 of the time for one) not to mention the awkward effective SPR remaining.
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-13-2022 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dean221
Something important that doesn't get talked about all too often- short stacked villains don't tend to 3b bluff against the big stacks nearly as often as vice versa.
And they are quite right (at least in low stakes).
I mean in the 5€ tourneys I play, when someone has a 100BB+ stack in mid-late game, it's often a loose rec profile who will play even looser now that he got a big stack.
So you don't want to 3b light against them.

So general population underbluffs, and this specific player with 28/19/7 seems to flat his good hands, and 3bet premiums.

So in theory 99, TT, AQ are shoves.
But in practice, we are shoving with no FE into a range that dominates us, that can't be a profitable play.
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-13-2022 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justo
And they are quite right (at least in low stakes).
I mean in the 5€ tourneys I play, when someone has a 100BB+ stack in mid-late game, it's often a loose rec profile who will play even looser now that he got a big stack.
So you don't want to 3b light against them.

So general population underbluffs, and this specific player with 28/19/7 seems to flat his good hands, and 3bet premiums.

So in theory 99, TT, AQ are shoves.
But in practice, we are shoving with no FE into a range that dominates us, that can't be a profitable play.
Well said. I see these spots often in HH reviews w students and the most common mistake I see is when they're holding the CL and expect short-stacked villains to bluff them and they just always run into it. This spot is tougher because the inherent positional dynamic (cutoff v button) somewhat cancels out the perceived strength of their 3-bet off the short stack. I think if you see a combination of the two, where it is an EP raiser + they are shorter stacked, this makes me think they have the nuts and I'll be incredibly tight against these spots.

In OPs exact spot, I think this feels like worst hand we jam due to all the stuff we already discussed (TT+ AQ+) but if stack sizes were reversed and we held just under 30bb and villain had 100+, I think our jam range widens drastically to at the very least 77+ AJ+ KQ+ (since 3bettor jst has so many more bluffs off 100bb+ than sub 30bb)

Good habit that anytime you find yourself (in low or MSMTTs) saying "hm my hand is too good to fold", I would strongly recommend considering making a big fold; we seldom end up being good in these spots where our Spidey sense is trying to tell us something and sometimes our subconscious picks up on subtle reads that we might not see immediately.
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-13-2022 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justo
And they are quite right (at least in low stakes).
I mean in the 5€ tourneys I play, when someone has a 100BB+ stack in mid-late game, it's often a loose rec profile who will play even looser now that he got a big stack.
So you don't want to 3b light against them.

So general population underbluffs, and this specific player with 28/19/7 seems to flat his good hands, and 3bet premiums.

So in theory 99, TT, AQ are shoves.
But in practice, we are shoving with no FE into a range that dominates us, that can't be a profitable play.
Further to your point, if we are convinced villain has zero bluffs here, I'm totally down with folding this and going with Jj+ AK+, but we need to be certain and while I'm with you this looks very nutted due to their stack size, the position gives me the slightest pause for concern. If he has no bluffs that means he has just a value range which looks probably like TT+ AQ+ (maybe add 99 in but I think some ppl shove or flat 99 here at these stakes too)
Overplayed TT ? Quote
07-19-2022 , 08:19 AM
I think, some very big assumptions are being made in this thread. I can get on board with the idea, the Villain is not incentiviced to 3-bet Hero light, because Hero is the chip leader, and Villains stack size is kind of awkward for 3-betting. But I dont think, we can draw that kind of conclusion from his HUD-stats. 29/18 is basically a LAG. Yes the gap between VPIP and PFR is somewhat large, but that can easily happen over a small sample like 126 hands, and the vast majority of his preflop calls might be defending his blinds or small blind limping, which tells nothing about, how he react, when he is not in the blinds.

So for me I would just jam here and not think to much about it. I think, there is at least some fold equity, and I think, we get it in against two overcards or even a hand like 88-99 a decent chunk of the time. My second choise is to fold, because I dont see much point in putting in 25% of the effective stack preflop out of position, and then hate all flops, where we dont flop a set. Even if it comes like 772, we are still losing to JJ-AA, so if he have one of those hands, we are still stacking off behind.
Overplayed TT ? Quote

      
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