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Old 02-26-2009, 09:53 PM   #1601
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownklauen View Post
i just **** my pants

boku opened his prop-bet thread determined to just have postersin it to bet

1st post a guy who wants to bet ON boku

im very sure this wont happen anymore,congrats to all those lolHSgrinders to come in there and say how easy this is.action killed
No joke. ****ing ******s wanting to bet on Boku when he doesn't have nearly all the action he wants.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:57 PM   #1602
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by SiQ View Post
clownklauen,
Yeah, it appears everyone is ******ed. This tilts me to no end.
"o hey, a prop bet that I will never bet against, and the guy obviously wants to take a lot of action -- this is none of my business -- let me go and tell everyone that it's easy to do and/or try to book my own action in his thread"
I'm sorry, if you were one of the people that did any of the knocking you're really a moron and for your own sake you should not do anything gambling related outside of online because you probably will run into a lot of problems with people.
I don't really get this. When you decide to make a thread on 2p2, you are deciding to discuss a topic. Even if it is a prop bet. You are inviting people to comment on your prop bet. People are entitled to their opinions.

If their opinions are so damning to the bet, it means the bet was probably pretty one sided to begin with and maybe borders on a hustle?

Also, just because some one knocks action on an online poker forum for an online poker prop bet, in no way makes them likely to do the same thing in some pool hall.

edit: to make it clear, I have no idea what the bet is about or it's terms. I don't know if it is easy or hard for the guy to accomplish and my opinion is from reading comments in this thread out of context. So, don't look for any more of an argument from me
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:03 PM   #1603
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by SharkScope View Post
The fishbowls are a key trademark of the site
I agree that they are a trademark of your site. I also believe they have a negative effect on the profitbilty of sngs. Sometimes as a company you have to stand back and look at things from a differnt perspective. I would guarantee that if you polled all your paying customers that an overwhelming majority would vote for removal of the fishbowls. I am sure many of your customers really havent thought about this but some of these (fishbowl)players are the backback to many games that run.

Thats really all I have to say about it. I guess if enough paying customers send emails with this suggest then maybe sharkscope scope will reconisder. Thanks for chiming in and posting in the thread Mr. Sharkscope.

I am going to Savannah for the weekend. Gl with the grind sttf
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:46 PM   #1604
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by Ditch Digger View Post
No joke. ****ing ******s wanting to bet on Boku when he doesn't have nearly all the action he wants.
I booked action for boku via that thread. I don't really give a **** if he doesn't get all the action he wants. It doesn't really benefit me if he snaps up all the action for the bet and if my taking action prevents him from getting enough to make the bet worthwhile that doesn't really affect me either. I saw what looked to be a +EV bet and jumped on it. Prop betting isn't a team sport so what good does it do let opportunity pass?
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:01 PM   #1605
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

+1 on the getting rid of fishbowls on sharkscope
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:11 PM   #1606
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by SharkScope View Post
We have very little interest in it becoming a he said/she said situation from private communication - but we have no reason to lie, we are already prohibited on PokerStars. The rule may say no "player profitability data" but the "etc." can be used to include pretty much anything we suggest. For example ITM% should not be included in the category as it does not conclusively say anything about how much a player has won, because you have no idea what stakes they finished in the money and what positions they finished in. It is far less useful than total cashes and average buyin which can be directly used to calculate total profit. It is also an extremely poor stat to try and berate someone with, as most new players will have no idea what it means anyway.

We strongly believe that all abusive use of statistics revolves around the total profit figure and no other figure and if you make that impossible to accurately know by default then 99% of PokerStars concerns would be resolved.

Our compromise offers have always been to make it impossible to work out conclusively whether a player has won or lost money, but still display some ability metric that shows whether they are a good player or not. This is logically far better than showing total cashes and average buyin, which are apparently now OK to display.

We were told by PokerStars that this meant our views were irreconcilable and therefore no further progress was possible - and they ended communication.

We'd be more than happy to discuss the issue publicly on Two Plus Two with us, the community, and PokerStars to see if there are options that everyone feels finds the correct compromise. We do not believe there is any value in discussing it privately any further because there seems to be "confusion" about what was said previously.
See this is weird. It's like you guys are talking right past each other. Josem is saying PS doesn't have a problem with being able to "conclusively determine a player's profitability" from the stats shown. They just don't want to see ROI, or avg profit or total profit, or I guess some kind of ranking, which can be used to easily lookup and berate someone with in game. But you can derive any of these basically if you have total winnings, avg. buyin and # of games. Which he is saying is ok.

But then you come back and say PS won't let you show anything that you can conclusively derive profit from, which is not what they're saying at all.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:54 PM   #1607
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by xxdanimalxx View Post
Noodleman - looks like those kids are learning the **** outta those audio books.



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Feb 26, 2009
Dear TheNoodleMan, Mary, Dan and Benjamin,
I would like to thank you, donors, for allowing my class to get the materials that we requested. It has been a couple of weeks since we received our CD players for listening to audio books on CD. As you can imagine, Listen to Reading was a very popular choice the first few days we had them! The children really love finding a special spot in the classroom and listening to the books on CD. Also, by freeing up our classroom computers, we have been able to type our stories we've written during Writer's Workshop.

Thank you again for your support. It is donors like you that make it possible to get materials that we would otherwise have to learn without.


With gratitude,
Ms. H.
Apparently since "I" (in quotation marks because it was actually a bunch of STTFers) donated over a certain threshold, there are going to be some hand written thank you notes addressed to "TheNoodleMan."
Ms H said the kids got a huge kick out of the fact I chose to use that nickname instead of a real name. It makes me wish everyone had donated through the site instead of poker transfers so they could laugh at more strange names.

It reminds me of my first STTF gathering (STTF HUC-II), and having to tell a security guard at the Venetian that I was TheNoodleMan. He told me that reading our list of crazy nom-de-nets was the most fun he'd had on the job in long time. He was giggling like a school girl at the thought of a grown man going by the name Skipper Bob.
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:08 AM   #1608
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize View Post
I booked action for boku via that thread. I don't really give a **** if he doesn't get all the action he wants. It doesn't really benefit me if he snaps up all the action for the bet and if my taking action prevents him from getting enough to make the bet worthwhile that doesn't really affect me either. I saw what looked to be a +EV bet and jumped on it. Prop betting isn't a team sport so what good does it do let opportunity pass?
Not taking his action is common courtesy. He put in the legwork for the bet and will be the one grinding. You are essentially stealing equity from someone that came up with a legit bet that generated a lot of interest.
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:51 AM   #1609
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by Ditch Digger View Post
Not taking his action is common courtesy. He put in the legwork for the bet and will be the one grinding. You are essentially stealing equity from someone that came up with a legit bet that generated a lot of interest.
I want to take action on the bet. There are multiple offers out there. Apparently some people would rather bet with me than with boku. I don't see how this is a problem unless you think he has some right to be the only person to bet on the prop.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:03 AM   #1610
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by blackize View Post
I want to take action on the bet. There are multiple offers out there. Apparently some people would rather bet with me than with boku. I don't see how this is a problem unless you think he has some right to be the only person to bet on the prop.
If he hasn't gotten all the action he is looking for, and you are soliciting action on the same forum he is, then you are stealing his action.

Frankly, I'm perplexed as to how you could view it any other way.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:03 AM   #1611
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Blackize,
I guess it just comes down to ethics and what you believe is right and wrong. I personally think that's wrong and wouldn't do it, esp. not in that way.
Would it be possible for you to find a different way to get the action? PMs, AIM, even asking in this thread?

I have to say that I'm amazed at how some of you look at this. I would have figured, especially the reputable posters like Blackize and Devin who seem to be very smart guys and also play poker for a living would "get" it.

Also Devin, people doing it online and not doing it in person isn't the problem. I don't knock action in a pool hall because I'm afraid, I don't do it because it's wrong. I would act the same online.

Last edited by SiQ; 02-27-2009 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:11 AM   #1612
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Devin's statement and Blackize's actions are completely different.

Voicing your opinion on a bet isn't in the same realm as stealing action.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:19 AM   #1613
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiQ View Post
Also Devin, people doing it online and not doing it in person isn't the problem. I don't knock action in a pool hall because I'm afraid, I don't do it because it's wrong. I would act the same online.
Well, it's your definition of wrong, which is obviously a debatable opinion. I'm basing my argument on the fact that posting an opinion about a bet is not wrong, imo. Not any more wrong that engaging someone in a bet that is decidedly one sided.

Hypothetical. You are in a pool hall. You are with a friend. You're friend is a decent pool player, and is running good that night. So, some dude comes up to him and asks him to play for monies. I don't know how pool bets work, but lets say ur buddy has been playing $10/ball. This unknown guy comes up to your buddy and wants to play for $200/ball, with 1 ball spotted. Your buddy thinks he's +EV with 1 ball. But you know this unknown guy. You know he has at least a 2ball advantage on your buddy and you know he knows he has this edge. You don't warn your friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiQ View Post
I didn't mean to imply they were the same. I was just addressing both of them in one post.
Dev said he didn't get what was wrong with knocking and stealing action in that thread.
I didn't saying anything about stealing action.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #1614
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoodleMan View Post
Devin's statement and Blackize's actions are completely different.

Voicing your opinion on a bet isn't in the same realm as stealing action.
I didn't mean to imply they were the same. I was just addressing both of them in one post.
Dev said he didn't get what was wrong with knocking and stealing action in that thread.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #1615
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
If he hasn't gotten all the action he is looking for, and you are soliciting action on the same forum he is, then you are stealing his action.
It's not stealing because it's not his action until someone books the bet against him. Would it be stealing his action if I popped into that thread and said I would do the prop at 2:1?

Quote:
Blackize,
I guess it just comes down to ethics and what you believe is right and wrong. I personally think that's wrong and wouldn't do it, esp. not in that way.
Would it be possible for you to find a different way to get the action? PMs, AIM, even asking in this thread?

I have to say that I'm amazed at how some of you look at this. I would have figured, especially the reputable posters like Blackize and Devin who seem to be very smart guys and also play poker for a living would "get" it.
I find it hard to believe that so many of you think that you can lay some claim to all action on a particular prop.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:23 AM   #1616
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Also I don't see how this has anything to do with ethics. Taking action on a prop isn't like standing in a line where it's first come first served. It's more like setting up a lemonade stand where people are free to buy from whoever they choose.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:25 AM   #1617
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by DevinLake View Post
Well, it's your definition of wrong, which is obviously a debatable opinion. I'm basing my argument on the fact that posting an opinion about a bet is not wrong, imo. Not any more wrong that engaging someone in a bet that is decidedly one sided.

Hypothetical. You are in a pool hall. You are with a friend. You're friend is a decent pool player, and is running good that night. So, some dude comes up to him and asks him to play for monies. I don't know how pool bets work, but lets say ur buddy has been playing $10/ball. This unknown guy comes up to your buddy and wants to play for $200/ball, with 1 ball spotted. Your buddy thinks he's +EV with 1 ball. But you know this unknown guy. You know he has at least a 2ball advantage on your buddy and you know he knows he has this edge. You don't warn your friend?
Good point you bring up Devin.
Yes I absolutely warn my friend. But I don't shout across the pool hall "HEY DON'T PLAY HIM I KNOW EXACTLY HOW HE PLAYS!"... I just go to my friend and tell him. And I don't spread the word around the pool hall.
There is a little common courtesy. I know the guy is trying to make a living, so I let him be, I just don't let him take money from me or let my close friends get taken -- but I'm not going to knock him and let everyone find out so his action is dead. That's just wrong.
The guy isn't robbing anyone, he's not putting a gun to your head. People who gamble him know that they don't know anything about him, and they knowingly risk their money. They can play him and then decide if he's too good or if they think they can still win.

Also if the guy was about to play someone and I knew this guy was a lock to win, and I wanted to get action on it, I'd go up and ask the guy for a piece, or I'd try to get action quietly form the people I know. I would not scream "HEY IF ANYONE WANTS TO BET I'LL TAKE THIS GUY!" - until he's done taking his own action.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:37 AM   #1618
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize View Post
I find it hard to believe that so many of you think that you can lay some claim to all action on a particular prop.
Its not like he is prop betting on some uncontrollable variable, he's betting on his own ability.

When you're the one performing the activity that is being wagered upon, you should absolutely get first crack at the action.

You're a parasite. Id love it if he took no action himself and threw the bet in order to discourage this type of behavior but that is unrealistic.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:37 AM   #1619
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

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Originally Posted by SiQ View Post
Good point you bring up Devin.
Yes I absolutely warn my friend. But I don't shout across the pool hall "HEY DON'T PLAY HIM I KNOW EXACTLY HOW HE PLAYS!"... I just go to my friend and tell him. And I don't spread the word around the pool hall.
There is a little common courtesy. I know the guy is trying to make a living, so I let him be, I just don't let him take money from me or let my close friends get taken -- but I'm not going to knock him and let everyone find out so his action is dead. That's just wrong.
The guy isn't robbing anyone, he's not putting a gun to your head. People who gamble him know that they don't know anything about him, and they knowingly risk their money. They can play him and then decide if he's too good or if they think they can still win.

Also if the guy was about to play someone and I knew this guy was a lock to win, and I wanted to get action on it, I'd go up and ask the guy for a piece, or I'd try to get action quietly form the people I know. I would not scream "HEY IF ANYONE WANTS TO BET I'LL TAKE THIS GUY!" - until he's done taking his own action.
I agree with this post, and is the way I'd assume 90% of people would handle my hypothetical situation. But my entire argument is based on the fact that this bet is being negotiated on a public forum, which changes the rules. If you are soliciting bets publically, you have to take the risk that the public will weigh in with their opinion and that is what I don't see as being wrong.

Is it wrong for the say the ESPN sportcasters to give their opinions on who will win a given sporting event, even if it goes against the line that some bookies are giving?

Maybe I'm wrong, and I never get involved in these things anyway, so it's not like my opinion is hurting anyway. This is just my unbiased view on the situation.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:43 AM   #1620
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

I'm going to try to make $60k next month at the $40s. I've got all the action I need against, so I'm only taking action from people who want to bet on me at this time. PM for escrow details.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:52 AM   #1621
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Devin you're right. The rules do change on a public forum, and absolutely that is the risk you take when you post a prop bet. It's just a pitty to see people who obviously have no interest in wagering any money just blatantly trying to kill the guys action, some of them "reputable" posters - and even worse to see people trying to take action FOR in the guys own thread.

Re; your ESPN analogy. I have no problem with people who are interested saying "I can't take this bet with those odds because I feel like you can do it enough to make that a bad bet. If you lower the odds I'm in" - or if he asked "what do you guys think about this line?". But people who just go in for the sake of, IDK, showing the world they know everything or just trying to get their post count up and saying "lol this is too easy why would anyone bet on this" just tilt me.

Also Devin, since you are a true gentleman and have handled this debate with class I present to you this token of my appreciation... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gcfE6ouUPE

And for blackize; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhHClfctsPI
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:09 AM   #1622
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

i agree so much with thenoodle and siq

i mean blackize,even though all those arrogant pricks say how easy it is,BOKU is grinding his ass totally off for 2 weeks.and even if he made it after 11 days it was neither easy nor fun at all for sure.

and you STEAL action,period.oh and btw i dont think this will happen anyway because people are doubting in the meanwhile,and i dont think he gets enough action anymore.

HE very well deserves his 105k if he makes it.after that you can lay any bets,but before its immoral,unethic blablubb.
this is so damn logical for me,i just dont get how you can argue about that.
its bokus thing,go make your own.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:10 AM   #1623
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

I think anyone using the words immoral or unethical to describe not giving boku first crack at all the action he wants is a moron. It may well be discourteous, but it certainly isn't immoral.

Quote:
i mean blackize,even though all those arrogant pricks say how easy it is,BOKU is grinding his ass totally off for 2 weeks.and even if he made it after 11 days it was neither easy nor fun at all for sure.

and you STEAL action,period.oh and btw i dont think this will happen anyway because people are doubting in the meanwhile,and i dont think he gets enough action anymore.

HE very well deserves his 105k if he makes it.after that you can lay any bets,but before its immoral,unethic blablubb.
He doesn't even attempt the bet if he doesn't get enough wagered on it to make it worth his while so it's pretty irrelevant if the bet was neither easy nor fun. People reading the thread know that he's taking bets on it still. All I've done is present them with the opportunity to place those bets with me and for whatever reason a few people were interested in betting with me rather than boku.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:30 PM   #1624
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

I love when my roommate tries to talk poker with me...re: his home game sng last night:

Roommate: "Ah I went all in with trip eights and a jack high and got called by ace queen and he busted me."

Me: "Wat?"

Roommate: "Ya. I know. He runs so good."

Me: "Wat? Runner-Runner?"

Roommate: "Wat?"

I wish they would play for more than 5$/person.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:40 PM   #1625
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Re: *** Official STTf February kakkendaaliluukku Thread - No lame BBV ***

Blackize,
You wrong mang. Also I don't get how you can't see that what you are doing isn't cool.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake View Post

Is it wrong for the say the ESPN sportcasters to give their opinions on who will win a given sporting event, even if it goes against the line that some bookies are giving?
I wish more people paid attention to who sportscasters picked because sports betting would be easier than poker.
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