I don't want to pollute this thread further but imo Barack Obama has a point but he is just wording it wrong. There is more skill in regular speeds and turbo speeds, but less room for error in hypers. That means that in regulars and turbos you can probably get away with making certain mistakes over and over again, at the hypers it would kill your earnings.

Barack, ive played hypers for the last couple years so im not a hater. But turbos definitely require more skill . If i were gonna rank the aspects of SNGs in terms of most solved to least solvied it would be
push/fold 0-10bbs
steal/resteal 11- 24bbs
25+bbs

So since most turbos have more hands played at less solved stacks, theres more skill required to be able to beat them. The reason edges are so much smaller and you can make any mistakes in hypers is because the fish are playing closer to optimal strat than they are in deepstacked. The only way this could be true is if there was less skill required.

I do agree with you that just because turbos are losing traffic to hypers doesnt mean stars should do something about it. They are losing traffic becaue more people want to play them and it shoudnt be stars job to protect a format by limiting players' choices to other formats.

Yeah I guess I agree with what you are saying. There's a lot more to solve in slower structures, but no one solves it all and you don't need to in order to win. In hypers you have to play close to flawless. I just find that more difficult than staking fish greater than 25 BBs deep I guess. But like, I've done some post flop ICM calculations of different lines, and it's a nightmare. If you're solving those types of spots in deeper stacked games then in all fairness that is more difficult. However you can just play those spots intuitively like 99% of regs and be fine. Intuition probably isn't enough to profit in hypers for most people. I do think the part I bolded,should read there is more skill required to play them optimally, but not necessarily to beat them (beat them meaning positive ROI.) I think "beating the games" is more a factor of minimizing errors than playing every spot optimally. I think it's easier to beat the slower structure b/c you can get away with more mistakes. But to truly master the game, not that anyone is mastering every spot of any speed, but in theroy, would be much much harder in a reg spead, but mastery is much less necessary to be a winner. It still is obviously something good to quest after, if anyone is really putting in all that work, my hat's off to them. I think there is more to master in slower structures, but it is more difficult to be a profitable player pre-rakeback in hypers. To have the highest ROI in the game that is conceptually possible, would obviously be harder in the slower structures b/c there are more complex spots. It's kind of symantics, but that's what I was trying to say. Anyway, i'm just repeating what you guys said, more clumsily. So here:

I agree.

Back to topic.

yeah prob should have said optimally. Though in the higher stakes turbos i assume pretty much everyone is playing pushfold close to perfect and the thing that separates winners and BEs from losers is how they play deepstacked.

We are considering whether or not to deploy additional PLO hypers. I'll post here once we make a decision one way or the other. In the meantime, I have increased the number of $7 6-max PLO hypers in the lobby from one to three.

PLO hypers don't have to make sense. They are popular, fun, fairly fishy, and yet they only exist at ONE buy-in ($7). I would love to see more of them.

Also +1 to the lottery ticket idea.

Walmsley got in before me. Thanks Walmsley

I actually agree with OMGBarackObama on his point that HS hypers can be a more skilled game depending on your point of reference - It's much easier to play against a vanilla reg in a turbo with his 2009 strategy
than jorj in a 2012 hyper - players in these games are playing very , very good.
There are no room for mistakes in hypers compared to turbos or non-turbos.
I can get away with being spazzman in 18mans, everyone knows this.

I think the problem is that "skilled game" is just way off in comparing the two/three formats,
they require different skillsets and so shouldn't be compared directly

youre awesome walmsley

you still owe me a candlelight dinner+ cocktails till im alcoholpoisoned tho for letting me wait for 15+ steaks

but any step is a goot step

Speaking of PLO hypers, any thoughts on NLO8 and/or PLO8 hypers?

If you need figures to look at it's popularity + sustainability, have a look at the TCOOP 6-max satellites. I believe there were $7, $9 and $38 games that ran quite often. IMO, they can successfully run at all levels with a preference for the high stakes ($3.50 up to $30).

Also, there was a petition in the O8 section which was signed by several players. Have a read: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/44...stars-1139256/

i say no to hilo hypers.the turbo hilo stts + 18mans run quite frequently so i think its a healthy section u can enjoy.plo hi is the absolute contrary being dead and off.

and i wouldnt want the pain of 250 splits in a row on the bubble and hu.
i also like the game in mtt format.

During off hours, the 18 mans don't run that often. It would make more sense for stars to have the regulars that actually want to put in heavy volume during this time.

+1 to plo8 Hypers. Give them a trial at least!

Also i would like to see some PLO8 CG heads-up tables.

alright
just deliver them plo+hilo hypers walmsley

i would play plo8 hypers

hey walmsey, il throw this into the mix.....higher plo fifty50s! please! the plo games sng wise run dry above $15 apart from the occassional $30 and $500 6max turbo, but id assume theres enough traffic to sustain a regular speed and turbo $30 fifty50

I feel like we're on the cusp of making PLO8 and NLO8 hypers a reality. Not sure if Walmsey has forgotten about this thread or if this idea is being discussed internally @ Pokerstars. Regardless, we would love to hear your thoughts on the feasibility of these games.

Higher stakes F50s would be nice. Dont see a reason they shouldnt go higher than $200 given their popularity.

update on 6m turbo/regspeeds since hypers were added

games are still running much less and now after 5pm they basically cease to load and die out completly. Before hypers were added at 100s they used to run good volume atleast for 3-4hrs more. Is stars planning on doing anything else in terms of changes? It would be nice to know becuase it does affect the games me/others will be playing if turbo 6m just doesnt run that much anymore

thanks
simpledude16

^ was always going to happen. And im guessing its likely to get worse

YES deffently add this please!!

The omaha 8 SNGs traffic has gone down alot since last year.
i used to be able to have atleast 10 running in the good times lol, now i can barley play 1 an hour so adding hyper turbo omaha8 would increase the traffic for this game significantly.

and also have more buyin levels for PLO hyper turbo as there's only $7 HU, 6 max and 9 seater.

Within the next few hours, we will be deploying the following Pot-limit Omaha 6-max Hyper Sit & Gos.

$1.40 + $0.10
$3.32 + $0.18
$14.41 + $0.59
$28.83 + $1.17
$96.49 + $3.51

With regard to the possibility of Omaha Hi-Lo hypers. Even if we deployed them, we couldn't deploy both PLO8 and NLO8 due to liquidity concerns. I would be interested to see if a consensus could be reached in the thread about which format is more likely to be successful.

Note this isn't about which format you personally prefer or which you believe requires more skill. Just which would prove more popular.

I would do not care if it was PLO8 OR NL08 as long as i could play a hyper turnbo version of this game.

I would think NL08 would be more successful because players who were just trying out the game for the first time would prefer NL08 as they get to put all there chips in.
It could be frustrating for certain people who dont understand the game when they cant get all there chips in.

but like i said before as long as there was omaha8 hyper turbo i couldnt care less. just add this game soon please.

After looking on stars and looking on Pokertracker, iver seen more NLO8 SNGs played than the PLO8.

NLO8 hyper turbo looks to be the better option. pokertars can obviously check for themselfs about what fills up more out of the 2, and whichever one is the most popular add the hyper turbo version.

aslong as there's a hyper turbo version i think omaha8 players will be happy either way.