[LOW] 11$ tournament - Shoving AKs against unknown player. - MTT Poker Strategy

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[LOW] 11$ tournament - Shoving AKs against unknown player.

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02-09-2024 , 04:57 PM

Frost89

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 105

*edit: Is Ace King off-suited.

I was already ITM, had moved to another table, I didn't have any information about the players. Do you think is it a bad move, or is ok to shove pre with AKo in this case?

$11,00 - Hold'em No Limit - 6,000/12,000 (1,500 ante) - 8 players

UTG: 212,322 (18 bb)
UTG+1: 609,065 (51 bb)
MP (Hero): 375,917 (31 bb)
MP+1: 266,820 (22 bb)
CO: 855,330 (71 bb)
BU: 774,002 (65 bb)
SB: 862,591 (72 bb)
BB: 241,784 (20 bb)

Pre-Flop: (30,000) Hero is MP with K♠ A♥
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to 24,000, Hero 3-bets to 374,417 (all-in), 5 players fold, UTG+1 calls 350,417

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02-09-2024 , 07:41 PM

FreakDaddy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18,064

~30 bbs, there's almost never anything wrong w/ shoving AK pre. Regardless though, I still like a 3-bet so I can continue to keep the rest of my range a little wider, and I'm not shoving everything this deep.

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02-09-2024 , 08:55 PM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

It's certainly not a bad move. A standard 3-bet if you think you can induce worse hands to shove is good, too. With AKo I tend to tilt more often to shoving when it's close between the two, whereas with AKs I might more often make the standard 3-bet.

Really, folding is the only completely wrong decision. Calling is pretty bad too unless you have someone incredibly squeeze-happy behind you and you can pull off a 4-bet back-shove (or if the squeezer shoves, call off).

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02-09-2024 , 09:03 PM

LifeNitFL

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 239

Like the above posters said, it's not a bad move, but when you 3 bet jam for 15x the opening raise, it might make it kind of obvious you have AK, as that's what a lot of people do this with.

For instance, if I have 99, and someone does this, I usually assume they have AK, and call if I feel like it's worth it to flip and build a bigger stack. (Obviously if we're near the bubble or I already have a healthy stack, I will fold.) If I have 99 and someone sticks in a small 3 bet, it's actually much scarier because I cannot exclude premium pairs from their range.

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02-09-2024 , 11:49 PM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeNitFL

That is, indeed, one reason when you look at solver ranges for overbet jams at 30-40 BB, they're mostly AK but depending on positions they'll include QQ/KK sometimes to balance.

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02-10-2024 , 01:52 AM

LifeNitFL

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by nath

That is, indeed, one reason when you look at solver ranges for overbet jams at 30-40 BB, they're mostly AK but depending on positions they'll include QQ/KK sometimes to balance.

That's a nasty balance but I can tell you that knowledge hasn't made it to the world of $33 ACR events

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02-10-2024 , 02:20 AM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

I think you see it most from SB, since SB is so incentivized to 3-bet / 3-bet large because of position. Anyway, I've pulled it at a slim frequency just to keep that balance. I don't think it's really worked out in the sense of getting called by worse, but, you know, small sample sizes and all.

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02-10-2024 , 12:17 PM

LifeNitFL

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 239

That does make the most sense, but I see it from lots of positions and I actually see a lot of open shoving 30-40 BBs with AK which is obviously terrible. Now I'm tempted to do that with KK just one time for fun.

Then there are live tournaments. I was in one of the blinds with 40 BBs, couple limps, the button shoved a stack around my size, I called with QQ expecting to see AK a fair amount, and he had A7 off...

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02-11-2024 , 01:41 AM

deuceblocker

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,384

I don't like it because it looks too much like AK. I would just 3! normally, even though it could be tricky if you get flat called and miss. If the table is squeeze happy, then flat and back shove, which avoids a big pot going to the flop. However, an 11 is probably sort of loose/passive.

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02-12-2024 , 03:39 AM

#10

nootaboos

grinder

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 550

3bet to induce and then tilt when utg+1 flats and and donk jams the 9 high flop. ;(

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