Live MTT 89, 6 left . Pays top 7.

Blinds 20k/40

Hero has 130k

Hero in BB Ac9d UTG raise 5bb and CO shoves all in. Hero folds.

UTG shows 77 CO KJ

A9 wins - would’ve been a big triple up but instead folded. Thoughts on that spot?

Apologies if lingo is wrong I’m a noob.

When you have 3bb in the BB there aren't many spots that are folds. Assuming the payjump from 6th to 5th is small and there aren't other shorter stacks, it looks like a call. If you have the payouts and stack distribution you can plug the hand into an ICM calculator.

This is on the dead money bubble, though, right? So it's the jump from nothing to something, not 6th to 5th.

I think it's probably a fold with that kind of action (a 5BB raise and then a jam?) and in the stone money bubble situation.

Knowing the other remaining stacks, and whether that 130k is before or after posting the BB (is there an ante?) would be useful in deciding this. Exact payouts would help too.

7 paid, 6 left, nath.

Personally with 6 players left and 3 blinds I would call here every time. Its a chance to triple up and possibly do it vs only 1 player. I don't care about moving up to 5th place from 6th. And with 4 blinds we have virtually no fold equity if we are first in anyway. The only time I might fold is if there are like 3 or more players with less than 2.5 blinds (or if there were 2 and CO or UTG would end up out or less than 2 1/2 blinds).

The only thing that stands out is why UTG would raise to 5 blinds. Normally its a sign they have JJ. Was UTG raising like this all the time?

It also matters what everybody's stack sizes are. If UTG is a massive chip leader then it might explain the 5 blinds opening. If CO is a massive Chip leader then it would allow for a wider range and I would basically instantly call.

Not to be too harsh but...

I find it useless to say 'I don't care about moving up from 5th to 4th'. Imagine you are playing the SHRB, where the pay jumps are 6 figures. Then you'd care, right?

I take it as a given that posters are trying to maximize ev; not chance to win the tournament. If so, you should always be thinking about ICM.

We need some more context here; ie what are the other stack sizes, etc. It matters a great deal where we stand if we do triple our stack.

Hard to imagine a scenario where I fold ANY two cards when a) I am in the money with 6 players left, b) I am in the big blind, c) I have 3 bb back.

Just a reminder that when you have 3BB and there are antes, you are going to lose 1/3 of your stack with every round around the table. Here you're at a non full final table, so every SIX hands 1/3 of your stack will be gone! So even if you wait a bit and get a better hand than A9o, and secure the double up, you will only have 1/3 more chips than you have currently. That is a strong incentive to move fast.

I should stop posting at odd hours because I always misread things.

I'm less averse to a call now, though I'm not sure how much. The specific action (5x and 3-bet shove) is so strong that I would expect my opponents' ranges here to be much stronger than what they actually turned up.

calling 90k to win 320k.
Although the prospect of losing a place position 3 ways devalue the pot odd a bit, but you have no FE and must win a showdown to continue if you fold.

I think I am calling it.

Its 6th to 5th not 5th to 4th (not that it matters)

Thing is I'm not an ICM believer. I personally think it sucks. It doesn't take into consideration the value of more chips in terms of what it enables you to do.

In a very large tournament at the Venetian with 2 very small stacks at the final table I did choose to play ICM-like in order to move up. And yet with 6 players left I limp shoved with AQ when I was SB vs BB. I knew he was going to raise because he did it every single hand basically in this type of position. He had AK and called of course and I sucked out. I risked roughly $15,000 by my play but I thought he would fold over 50% of the time at least. But I wanted to have a big stack so I could navigate better. In the end I finished 3rd which was my biggest cash ever. It allowed me to play hands against the short stacks (which I never won ironically).

So here unless just about everybody is very short stacked ( <=2.5 blinds) other than UTG and CO I am going to go for it. Regardless of the stakes.

I don't see what makes this an example of ignoring ICM. ICM doesn't mean "fold everything" or "play super passively." It means don't get in questionable spots when there's a lot of real money at risk, and when you're at risk of busting out, you want to have ranges and lines that maximize your fold equity unless you have really nutted hands.

Limp/shoving AQ in your spot is more of an ICM-influenced play than raise/calling it would be. Some people might limp/call out of worry of busting out, but I think this hand is a situation where the adjustment of being passive and keeping the pot small is not as good as maximizing your fold equity and trying to end the hand now. (Also, what the stacks are and what your stack is in the hand matters.)

Given your description of his play, I'd think he'd fold far more than 50% of his opens, too.

I think I had about 20 blinds and the two short stacks were at like 3 blinds and 6 blinds.

He had like 1 blind more than me so it was going to be interesting. His raise was going to be to 4bb's maybe 4.5 bb's. You may be right and his fold range would be closer to 75% or 80% but the strange thing is that some of his hands like Ax he would have jammed I thought.