Final table / 25 min clock / 10 out of 40 remaining, 5 players will be paid.

SB 500, BB 1000 + 1000 ante paid by BB
Pot by default is 2500

Hero stack 35000
Villain stack 45000

Hero hand As 4s

Hero CO open 2200
Villain Button 3bet 5000
All fold to HERO, HERO calls

Pot 12500
Flop 2d3h4d
Hero check
Villain bet 4000
Hero Calls

Pot 20500
Turn Jd
Hero checks
Villain snap All in (which put my remaing 26k left all in)
Hero folds


Prehistory, thought process :
1) Villain was a decent tight-aggro player, knowing ranges, but hero caught him bluffing(air bluffing with no backdoors 3 barrelled) for half his stack on prior table on this tournament
2) Because the structure is 25 minutes my thought process was as follows - pot odds were kind of okayish preflop + there is not enough time to pick many perfect spots, the fact that clock is 25min and antes eat you away quite quick. it is obviously not perfect to be OOP, but I am urged to play hands otherwise I might chip away.
3) Knowingly the Villain is creative and exploitable in that sense the implied odds played in, I suppose if he had a made hand 77-KK I still got 30% with an A4s, and I am even ahead if he has got KQo,KJs,Qjs,J10s type of hands(which he is totally capable of 3betting with in position), would be folding A4 offsuit I suppose.
4) Also I was blocking AA, Ax ( I hope that is correct way of looking at it)
5) Turn was really bad for me, because if he did not have a made hand pre flop, all of his Jx offsuit with 1 diamond has came in on the turn, or if he did have a made hand like 77+ my odds are terrible
6)unless he is bluffing, but I gave him the credit of not wanting to be struck by a same thunder twice
7) I agree that I should fold A4s pre-flop some times(not sure if majority of the time), but if I decided to play it, was thought process on all streets correct majority of the time?
8) My main concern about check-raising the flop was that I could not find an amount apart from risking my whole stack to check raise, because if pot was 16500, and my stack was 26000, there is not much of stack left for later streets to bet.

The conclusion I draw from this information is that 4-betting pre is better than calling.

I would call with this hand because it is only 2800 more to call, but I often think that a 4 bet shove could be right here if lets say BTN made it 6600.

A4s is in my 3 bet range preflop so I am always challenged in the moment.

Hi, nath, thanks for looking into this.

I was contemplating on 4-betting, again if we were like 100bb+ deep or cash game, where I could rebuy, it would make it much easier 4-bet and fold to all in. But the stack size kind of gives me the option of:
I dont believe he would fold light in position, so that would only let me to 4bet heavy which means:
1) 4bet to 15000-16000
2) 4bet all in

Now the 1st option is annoying because if he goes 5-bet all in, I kind of have to fold, leaving myself with 20 bb to continue to grind final table.
The 2nd option never crossed my mind, because I thought the value in the pot was never good enough to justify the risk of just shoving for tournament life, because the pot was 2.5+5+2.2= 9.7K, so basically 10bb in the pot, If say there was a limp, I raise, villain 3-bet heavier, limper fold, then the pot would be 13bb it kind of would make it more justifiable I suppose. ( again correct me if I am wrong)

About the shove I answered my thought process in the above reply to nath, Im not sure if thats correct way of thinking, but feels like too much risk. Again I think if I had 15-20BB then 4-bet shove seems more viable option as I already have limited gameplay and reshoving against players who are capable of applying aggresion in position would make more sense.

Now to Your reply. Thank You to for taking your time to answer. I am also interested if you have made the call and had the same flop, would you think that the line of check-call-check-fold is mostly correct in all senses gameplay-wise (considering that these guys are just simple regular punters) no pros, and GTO-wise?

I would mostly call the flop bet and fold to the turn bet. But it would depend on the player. If I saw this player checking back bad flops like this for his range then I might just fold on the flop especially because there is no spade.

Yeah, thanks for your insight.

It's definitely risky, but consider these factors:

-High-low hands are tough to play
-Out of position is tough to play
-You think villain is 3-betting light a lot from the button so he should have a lot of 3-bet/folds in his range
-You block AK/AQ/AA
-If you're wrong you're about 30-33% to win against anything except AA

And this isn't considering the future game potential of him 3-betting you light less often knowing that you'll 4-bet back sometimes, possibly forcing him to fold hands he would have preferred to see a flop with.

Speaking of the risk: There are 10 left and 5 get paid. You aren't as close to the money as you think you are.

I actually like you integrated my own words in to a playable course of action, which I failed to do at the spot.
Yeah I am yet to understand these spots, specially with my background being 1/1 1/2 1/3 £ cash games.
When you think of it he has a lot of folding range to my 4bet all in. So my thought process should have been more like, if I 4-bet shove, how likely is he to fold. When you think of it, the percentage must be quite high, because it would essentially leave him with 10BBs so, he most likely fold 55 66 77 88 99 TT, then suited broadways fold too, let's not forget he has 89s 9Ts in his 3bet range too which would auto-fold and call JJ QQ KK occasionally TT. And then call with blocked hands like AK AA AQ, of which are not many.
I was thinking is there any rule of thumb of how to calculate this rapidly on the spot? I mean villains range-wise?

Come to think of it, it seems like a better course of action after all was to put it in..

You left out the stacks of the remaining players which is essential in making the decision.

It is either an ICM fold to 3 bet pre or 4 bet shove depends on how the other stacks and how often you think he fold.

Yeah, other remaining stacks were 70bb-80bb nitty players, that would only get in on the action with monsters.