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KQo line from BB KQo line from BB

11-30-2012 , 05:10 PM
    Cake Poker, $20 Buy-in (200/400 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14802071

    SB: 10,527 (26.3 bb)
    Hero (BB): 8,653 (21.6 bb)
    MP1: 4,229 (10.6 bb)
    MP2: 9,055 (22.6 bb)
    MP3: 6,636 (16.6 bb)
    CO: 11,861 (29.7 bb)
    BTN: 12,588 (31.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q K
    MP1 folds, MP2 raises to 800, MP3 folds, CO calls 800, 2 folds, Hero calls 400

    Flop: (2,880) K 2 4 (3 players)
    Hero checks, MP2 bets 1,440, CO folds, Hero raises to 3,100, MP2 raises to 8,215 and is all-in, Hero calls 4,713 and is all-in

    Turn: (18,506) T (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (18,506) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 18,506 pot
    Final Board: K 2 4 T J
    Hero showed Q K and lost (-8,653 net)
    MP2 showed 2 2 and won 18,506 (9,853 net)
    CO mucked and lost (-840 net)



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    Villain is 19/13 over 140 hands hasn't shown down too much garbage. Never folds to a 3b. CO plays any 2 cards from any position. I thought about jamming with 20 bb's but if I do that I fold out the bottom of his range that I'm ahead of and only get called when I'm dominated or flipping. I think the flop came out pretty good for my hand and now it's just a matter of how to get all the chips in the middle. Given that he has bottom set that was pretty easy to do. I think after the cr on the flop he's probably jamming TT+, any fd, any K. Is this reasonable thinking? Anyone just shove the pile in his face pre? Is this ever a smaller 3b/ fold to shove situation?
    KQo line from BB Quote
    11-30-2012 , 05:57 PM
    Seems like a pretty good spot for a 3 bet shove pre. I might just flat if the co hadn't flatted, but with his dead money in there, and the fact he flats a super wide range, its an ideal spot to shove. Of course we won't get called by worse, but as long as the raiser is opening wide enough, it doesnt really matter. We are getting folds so much and our hand has decent equity when called.

    And 3b/folding preflop is never an option. Our hand is way too strong with our stack size for that.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    11-30-2012 , 06:55 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramsrunner09
    Seems like a pretty good spot for a 3 bet shove pre. I might just flat if the co hadn't flatted, but with his dead money in there, and the fact he flats a super wide range, its an ideal spot to shove. Of course we won't get called by worse, but as long as the raiser is opening wide enough, it doesnt really matter. We are getting folds so much and our hand has decent equity when called.
    Agreed. I thought his range may have been a little tighter from utg+1 than it turned out to be. I figured 77+ and broadways. If that was the case KQo still has 48% equity (against villains range) and is still a shove.

    Last edited by $tackinDonk$; 11-30-2012 at 07:15 PM.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    11-30-2012 , 07:03 PM
    clear shove pre
    obv never folding flop. can't really go wrong other than donking out or folding at some point
    KQo line from BB Quote
    11-30-2012 , 07:25 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Keeper1125
    clear shove pre
    obv never folding flop. can't really go wrong other than donking out or folding at some point
    Yeh I don't hate the way I played it. My plan was to check jam on alot of flops that didn't hit me as hard. Of course in hindsight would've loved to fold out that 22 knowing that the poker gods hate me and it will always flop a set on me.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    11-30-2012 , 11:25 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Keeper1125
    clear shove pre
    obv never folding flop. can't really go wrong other than donking out or folding at some point
    Yep, this is spot on. The reasons are quite obvious.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-01-2012 , 02:23 PM
    shove pre but flatting cant be too bad . obv gonna get it in on this flop
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-01-2012 , 03:47 PM
    Against this particular villain and my perception of his range, which was off fwiw, I felt that I would have stronger fold equity as well as a bigger pot check jamming most flops. His fold to 3b was 0. Maybe a preflop 20 bb shove folds out the 22 and even if it didn't I'd be pretty content when he flips it over after calling. So shoving is optimal preflop.

    That said, my entire thought process for flatting, which I do think has some merit, went something like this:

    He has alot of hands that I dominate in his range (I think a shove folds most of those out)
    He has alot of pairs that I'm flipping with in his range (I don't think a shove folds any of these out)
    He has some hands that dominate mine (certainly never folding these to a shove)

    If the flop had come giving me lets say a gutshot and 2 overs I check, he fires out his 1/2 pot cb (80% likely and standard for this player), I then jam. I think he folds all of his non paired hands (even the ones that dominated me preflop unless they also picked up a draw). I think his smaller pairs now go in the muck as well. If the flop comes ideally for me giving me top pair or better I milk value out of his lower pairs and unpaired hands maybe inducing a shove with a smaller cr. This thought process also assumes that CO folded to the cb (which he had been 85% over 150 hands).

    Any thoughts?
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-01-2012 , 04:57 PM
    shove pre, as played its fine.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-03-2012 , 04:04 AM
    everything is fine
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-03-2012 , 06:16 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Keeper1125
    clear shove pre
    obv never folding flop. can't really go wrong other than donking out or folding at some point
    +1
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-03-2012 , 06:24 AM
    shove pre
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-04-2012 , 03:58 AM
    shove pre obv
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-04-2012 , 06:45 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by $tackinDonk$
    Agreed. I thought his range may have been a little tighter from utg+1 than it turned out to be. I figured 77+ and broadways. If that was the case KQo still has 48% equity (against villains range) and is still a shove.
    vs 19/13 pre is far from a clear shove, even if it's a shove
    also equity vs raising range isn't what to look for, it's equity vs. calling range

    it's obv co-related tho
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-04-2012 , 06:56 AM
    This seems a pretty trivial jam.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-08-2012 , 01:30 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by furo
    everything is fine
    Thanks for the reminder, I needed that.
    KQo line from BB Quote
    12-08-2012 , 01:43 AM
    If there was ever a spot to squeeze this is it.. pull dat trigger son, flop as played nh.
    KQo line from BB Quote

          
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