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K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot

11-28-2012 , 12:48 PM
Hud is being stupid and hasnt updated my last session.

In big 33, 16/33 villain in bb has 10bigs, ive got 22 and I jam k3o.

Hes running 23/18 9.9% 3b over 104 hands. 3b vs steal was 19%.

Is it better to be r/fing here? Even though he can jam qj and 109s maybe, I just think vs his jam range we are usually not doing great anyway and his calling range has us crushed.

Deepish in a 26$ FO on ft.

20bb utg raiser running 25/19 over 19 hands min 4bets my 3b with JJ
(im button fullring game)

Are we supposed to be jamming here? I folded but not sure if a random just spazzes here. He only played 250 games this year with a 78% rating on opr.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-28-2012 , 01:28 PM
first hand is a fistpump shove vs this villain. its obv unexploitable so def. +EV, vs 10bbs his calling range wont have you crushed at all + he will fold very often. you can jam super light there.

second hand bad randoms dont 4b click light after raising utg. when you 3bet JJ there you shoul always be 3bet calling but i think a herofold is good vs his sizing. hes not doing that with AK either.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-28-2012 , 09:48 PM
Yup, K3o is a snap jam bvb when bb has 10bb. As random btn said, its an unexploitable jam.

In the second hand if he min 4 bets then we should at least be flatting to set mine. It might mean we have to fold on a 367r flop if we really put him on qq+ preflop but we are getting ridiculous odds preflop to call and we will stack him everytime if we hit a set and he has that tight of a range. it's not going to effect your stack much to throw in an extra big blind to hopefully win his 20bb, and the few you already put into the pot. Mathematically, folding to his min 4 bet, even if we know he has aa, is a mistake.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-28-2012 , 10:17 PM
Hand 1 seems fine - nash type stuff which can be looked up

Hand 2, I think a lot of people overestimate how much they are inducing vs UTG raises. What were the stacks of the SB/BB, honestly might just jam if it is something like 26bb effective.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-28-2012 , 11:51 PM
Don't get me wrong. I'm usually just piling here unless I have a specific read, but if we do think he's nutted here we can't just fold to a clickback. Also, what are the pros for just shoving here? KQ is really the only hand that this play is good for because he will fold to our jam but might rejam over a 3 bet. However, if we 3 bet, then we can get him t 3 bet shove some hands that he folds to our jam. Like smaller pps' (if he's opening them), and maybe hands like qjss and aj/a10. I think the pros for 3 bet/inducing outway the pros for jamming .
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-29-2012 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsrunner09
Don't get me wrong. I'm usually just piling here unless I have a specific read, but if we do think he's nutted here we can't just fold to a clickback. Also, what are the pros for just shoving here? KQ is really the only hand that this play is good for because he will fold to our jam but might rejam over a 3 bet. However, if we 3 bet, then we can get him t 3 bet shove some hands that he folds to our jam. Like smaller pps' (if he's opening them), and maybe hands like qjss and aj/a10. I think the pros for 3 bet/inducing outway the pros for jamming .
Most people aren't balancing a 3bet range vs UTG and why would you, most players you have so little history with. Your 3 bet range is likely strong because their opening range is at its strongest and you will only ever be perceived to 3b/c etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think you get called lighter when you don't differentiate the way you play the top most part of your range here (KK+) From the bottom of it. We don't give him a chance to hero fold some things that may have called a jam anyway.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-29-2012 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregz41
Most people aren't balancing a 3bet range vs UTG and why would you, most players you have so little history with. Your 3 bet range is likely strong because their opening range is at its strongest and you will only ever be perceived to 3b/c etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think you get called lighter when you don't differentiate the way you play the top most part of your range here (KK+) From the bottom of it. We don't give him a chance to hero fold some things that may have called a jam anyway.
What range/hands do you think he folds to a 3 bet but calls a jam with, and do you think that range is larger than the one he folds to a jam, but 4 bet jams over our 3 bet?

I think that our button 3 bet will look weak anyway so i don't think villain is hero folding 88-1010. He isnt going to call a jam with kq/qj or 22-66 so we are only giving him a chance to spew. I think its less likely hes opening the smaller pps' but either way 3 betting should allow him to get in a wider range.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-29-2012 , 03:19 AM
jam both pre
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-29-2012 , 06:01 AM
Greg, guy is active in hand 2 and if he undestands we understand it then we def can have 3b/f range esp having perfect position for that so obv he can 4b-shove wide enough to make 3b/c for us > 3b-shove.
Vs tigher guy jamming is superior option I agree.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-29-2012 , 05:38 PM
The bb and sb were over 35bbs so I opted to 3b. But yeah thanks for the feedback once again guys
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote
11-30-2012 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
Greg, guy is active in hand 2 and if he undestands we understand it then we def can have 3b/f range esp having perfect position for that so obv he can 4b-shove wide enough to make 3b/c for us > 3b-shove.
Vs tigher guy jamming is superior option I agree.
sample size is small.
K3oBVB deep in big33, jj facing 4b sick spot Quote

      
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