Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME

08-25-2023 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
So my reasoning is that he had never limped at all previously and is super deep now.

I guess I'm having difficulty interpreting what a limp means now for someone who hasn't limped in 5 hrs of play.

I see arguments for both sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
And that's the problem. It's very easy to overread limps in these situations. Unless I have some really strong read here I'm going to assume this is a bad player who limps some traps but also limps some hands they don't want to raise.
Yeah, exactly. I see a lot of certainty this is a strong hand, but it could just as easily be someone who's aware of the stacks behind him and wants to be able to play a flop but knows he can't call a 3-bet shove if he raises.

Both blinds have 3-bet shoving stacks, although we don't know from OP what the BT and CO stacks are. Maybe he knows how active he's been and is worried he'll get shoved on light.

Anyway, I probably just raise/call JJ here and don't feel too bad about it if I'm wrong. Sometimes players like this will limp/jam smaller pocket pairs, because obviously you must be stealing vs. his limp and it's hard to get dealt a pair so he'll try to force you to decide whether to call off on a flip.
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-25-2023 , 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
against HJ randoms I’d expect this to be low pp Axo low-mid SCs / UCs and weaker T9o+ rather than AA KK limp-jam traps (which are more common utg than HJ)

I’d raise smaller to around 3.5bb aiming to iso against HJ and keep him in with that entire broad weak range which JJ dominates. We also rep a range that covers overcards to the JJ nicely and can therefore range cbet the flop.

If you cbet Axx then be wary about continuing ott. Rec 100bb players on a live deep sun run tend to pick up and rely on some pretty keen postflop reading skills that shouldn’t be underestimated.

If a rec HJ limp raises I’d fold. We’re in unknown territory and a 23bb stack at this point of the mtt is super valuable.
Just a couple of things, please, love some feedback.

If you raise 3.5 and HJ and SB probably calls POT - 11bbs and you have 22bbs.

Considering HJ has 100bbs, a likely scenario is cbet and HJ calls, SB folds and suddenly the pot is 17bbs and you have18bbs

What do you do on the turn and the river? Obviously depends on the cards but there is some real pressure, especially with the stage of the tournie

Is that thinking too weak?
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-25-2023 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
against HJ randoms I’d expect this to be low pp Axo low-mid SCs / UCs and weaker T9o+ rather than AA KK limp-jam traps (which are more common utg than HJ)

I’d raise smaller to around 3.5bb aiming to iso against HJ and keep him in with that entire broad weak range which JJ dominates. We also rep a range that covers overcards to the JJ nicely and can therefore range cbet the flop.

If you cbet Axx then be wary about continuing ott. Rec 100bb players on a live deep sun run tend to pick up and rely on some pretty keen postflop reading skills that shouldn’t be underestimated.

If a rec HJ limp raises I’d fold. We’re in unknown territory and a 23bb stack at this point of the mtt is super valuable.
Yeah, I like raise fairly small and fold. You lose less folding to a 3! and you keep weaker limping hands in. With reads that he may 3! a lot without a higher pp, then check or raise/gii are possible.
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-25-2023 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsaac
Just a couple of things, please, love some feedback.

If you raise 3.5 and HJ and SB probably calls POT - 11bbs and you have 22bbs.

Considering HJ has 100bbs, a likely scenario is cbet and HJ calls, SB folds and suddenly the pot is 17bbs and you have18bbs

What do you do on the turn and the river? Obviously depends on the cards but there is some real pressure, especially with the stage of the tournie

Is that thinking too weak?
Hi OP

There are too many possible trees to cover, but we’re going to mix some small and larger cbets based on texture, and there’s a good chance the raise will iso
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-25-2023 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
So in 5hrs this is the first hand he didn't want to raise?

If he has some limps how likely do you think it is that he encounters it once during this time frame?
5 hours live is probably ~100 hands. In the grand scheme of things that's not a huge sample size. And it also implies that every hand was seen and there's no chance a limp or two was missed.
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-26-2023 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
5 hours live is probably ~100 hands. In the grand scheme of things that's not a huge sample size. And it also implies that every hand was seen and there's no chance a limp or two was missed.
Yeah I pay attention every hand. And probably closer to 140 hands. This was the only time he limped. Even at 140 hands if your premise is that he has some limps I'd say the chance that your assumption is correct is a lot lower than the other assumption that he only has a select few.

He was playing about 2 hands per orbit.
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote
08-29-2023 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatPots
Given the player you described, I am raising and not folding to a jam (If this guy gets it in KJs vs KK, then he must be making some moves). You really can't be checking JJ here. I think shoving 26BB vs a limp is overkill. You are giving the other players a chance to player their hands perfectly. Raise to 5BB and then be prepared to call it off or be prepared to get it in on a low board.
Agree with this. I think jamming, you are only called by super strong hands that are limping oddly. I would just raise to like 4.5-5.5x and hope to get the sb to fold. I think you lose a ton of value here jamming. This is a great spot we can stack off when we see low boards.

Hoping to make it 5x. Only limper calls. Then we can easily make a pot we can jam turn on
JJ in BB with 26bb ITM 00 ME Quote

      
m