20 left in a deepstack 11$ tournament

blinds 1k/2k + ante

i open t9s utg, i have been running over the table
co 3-bets smallish,
i get 3:1 and call

flop:Q88r
i check
he c-bets 1/3 of the pot
i decide to float one off with the gutter and backdoorflush to take it away if he checks the turn

turn:Jd putting a diamond draw out
i check
he bets half pot
i call

river: Ax
i check
he shoves for pot
if i call and lose i will have 10BB left

the guy has been 3-betting me a lot and i thought i have to call here, although i dont like it.

Obviously I think this a easy fold pre. As played we're calling. You hit your gin card, and when a brick river hits now that opponent is showing strength; do we now question our hand strength?

Stacks? How many players in table? ITM? Suits of cards?

the river isnt a total brick, as KK isnt betting, AA is now beating us and i dont know if AK is shoving, as there are not many hands AK can get value from. not to mention KT and A8 got there, which is unlikely but still could happen

if you try to come up with a range that is 3-barreling the board and shoving the river, you will see that he has to be overplaying a hand like AQ or 8x, which is the only reason you could call. there are literally close to 0 bluffs in villians range, maybe he has 56dd, but thats it.

if villian hadnt been 3-betting me that often, should we fold river?

stacks are around 80BB, we are ITM (400 started the tourney, there are 20 left) there are about 6 players at the table, i dont have a flushdraw.

Floating oop is -ev poker.

If you're so sure he has a big pair aq or an 8 why didn't you raise ott when you ginnied?

well i dont think my flop play is -ev, but im more of a cashgame player.

i should have jammed the turn, yes.

im not sure he has a big hand until the river, because it is very difficult to name a hand he is bluffing the river with or betting for value i can beat, if he is a good player. im sure a good player is not valuejamming an 8, because of that reason.

We need more info as someone earlier said. However, why did you call the turn bet when the pot odds was against. Seeing as you called flop according to the pot odds you should have done the same at the turn.

fold pre raise turn as said

If you're running over the table, don't float oop w/ 10-high and gutter oop in a pot where you get 3bet after opening UTG. It just doesn't make sense.

although it may feel like it at the time, there is no shame in folding to a 3b when oop (esp when we opened UTG which means villain's range is likely quite strong!). tough to outplay even semi-competent players out of position. and bc i've have insomnia (past couple days), this post somehow became tl;dr.

as played pre (i.e., assuming we call the 3-bet, which you did), we need to know stack sizes (as Puzo already mentioned). assuming you started the hand with 65bb and villain had 55bb (see backup calcs below), the pot is ~11bb to the flop and ~15bb after villain c-bets and we have ~60bb behind. a check-raise to 12bb or so is better than calling imo since we can get villain to sometimes fold (we don't know yet that he most likely does not have AK) and it would be an easy fold for us if villain came over the top. that said, a fold is probably best given the board is paired and we are oop (so it's tougher to bluff him off his hand when we miss).

as played on flop and turn (turn call is not terrible once we hit gin but raising is better if we are looking to get stacks in by river): by the time we get to the river, the pot is 150k or 75bb (after villain's jam), we have 47.5bb left and are facing a call for 37.5bb. first off, unless villain is a real spaz/aggrotard, we can exclude AK and 8x from his range (AK bc he almost always checks back turn as the J is not a good barrel card, 8x bc he 3bet a UTG open which indicates strength - I guess he could have 88 but that's 1 combo). hands which do make sense given the action so far: AQ x 9 combos, QQ x 3 combos, AA x 3 combos, JJ x 3 combos; though we should discount AQ given that a river shove is almost thin value on his part (if you've been peeling 3bets wide, 8x is in your range not to mention even stronger hands). we need to be right at least 1 in 3 times for this to be a profitable call. if we discount AQ to 5 combos (which is still probably generous), then it becomes a break even call on the river since we lose to 10 combos and beat 5 combos (i.e., we would only win 1 out of 3 times). considering that he could be bluffing (though it takes a really special villain to take this line on this board with total air), it becomes a slightly profitable call but still marginal. it's not terrible to fold, to continue playing with 48bb and to vow to no longer call 3bets oop with marginal hands.

backup calcs to estimate stack size (i admittedly make some assumptions but I can't be too far off): note: this is really info that should be in your original post. assuming an ante of 200, 7 handed (as there are 20 left), you raise to 4k and villain 3bets to 9k (giving you roughly 3.5:1, as you say). after you call, the pot is 22.2k. He bets 1/3p so ~7.5k and we call, so pot is now 37.2k. he bets 1/2p on turn so ~18.5k and we call, so pot is now 74.2k. he shoves pot oh river, so ~75k and, as you say, calling and losing would've left us with 10bb or 20k. therefore, we had 75k + 20k = 95k when facing the river bet. therefore, we can estimate your stack prior to playing the hand at 95k + 18.5k + 7.5k + 9k = 130k or 65bb. And villain had 110k or 55bb.

thx for the tl;dr reply, it was pretty competent and hadnt villian 3-bet me this often i should definitly fold the river.

since he 3-bet so often and won every pot against me so far i thought he a) was getting out of line b) was valuebetting to thinly.

thats why i made the call although it might still be -ev as the table aloud me to steal alot, which was definitly alot more +ev than playing marginal situations for my hole stack.

you should ask yourself why he 3b you so often. Mostly he 3betted you cause you were calling too much OOP (this hand shows it)
good player will 3b for value hands like KJo against sticky opponents. That's not getting out of the line, that's not valuebetting thinly. It's just isoing someone who calls to many 3bets oop.
how to adjust ?
first, he is not your only opponent at the table, attack other people., Then tighten up your opening ranges when you raise before him , 4b light more, call the 3b nutted or with hands that flop good top pairs, makes good top pair + draw oop so you can play them fast, fold your SC and small pairs.
But mostly, don't call 3b oop untill you fell comfortable playing postflop in 3b pots (lots of videos cover that subject)
also read this : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23...etting-982012/
a bit old but a good introduction and understand why the player was maybe not getting totally out of the line

i think my play postflop is ok, c/r the turn might be the better play.

i have a big problem folding any playable hand if i get 3:1 pre. maybe this is a mistake in a tourney, because the chips i win are not so valueable as the chips i bleed off with fighting in this situations.

in cashgames if someone minraises i call with alot of hands from the BB unless the player is really good. i cant figure out why J7s cant be played against a minraise for instance.

i try to be creative postflop, i c/r float and leed a lot to make this up.

what i need is a rule of thumb to calculate how to manage situations like this in a tourney.

Did you post the results of what happened?

agree