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Great trap or bad play? (5/100k guarantee live) Great trap or bad play? (5/100k guarantee live)

10-24-2016 , 12:32 PM
This is day 2 of a $125...$100k guarantee that drew $170k.
I started day 2 with 170k it's a top 20 starting stack out of 250. Money begins at 90ish. My table only has one bigger stack sitting 2 to my left with 210k. All others are under 80k.
I played some with villain on day one. Older white guy mb 50's. Seems to over value one pair hands. When he has a stack likes to throw it around. Will bet if connects with board, high c-bet %. I would say a little on loose side.
Hero is late 30s hisp. been pretty snug either showing down with goods or not going to show down. Doubled up a shorty about an orbit ago..AA vs AKo.
Blinds 3k/1.5k/500a
V(210k) UTG+1 raises to 9k Folds to
H (145k)BB w/ A,10 who just calls thoughts here?
Flop (24.5k) A J 3
I check to under rep thoughts here?
V bets 15k
I call. I thought about a raise here. I really don't put him on any A. But think a raise may chase him off. Thoughts here?
Turn (54.5k)10
Again check...with plans to check raise any bet.
V shoves!
Thoughts and what do you do here?
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10-24-2016 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poyo
I really don't put him on any A. But think a raise may chase him off. Thoughts here?
What is villains starting stack? Is he the one with 210K> Also, what makes you think he doesn't have an Ace here? AJ is very possible and he would maybe play a set this way seeing as the turn brought some more draws. It's a sick spot and it would be hard to lay it down, but knowing what his stack is would help.

Last edited by onehandatatime; 10-24-2016 at 02:44 PM.
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10-24-2016 , 02:48 PM
He's at 210k
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10-24-2016 , 03:02 PM
Everything is pretty standard so far.
Don´t x/raise turn (you will not be called by worse, let him bet worse hands, worse 2p+, bluffs/semibluffs etc.)
I´ll call here, pretty fast, ul if he has u beat.
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10-24-2016 , 03:07 PM
JJ AJ AA TT AK AQ 33 fd in range
Looks like JJ or spades
Think you can discount AK and AQ
Live reads...?
I can fold here
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10-24-2016 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
JJ AJ AA TT AK AQ 33 fd in range
Looks like JJ or spades
Think you can discount AK and AQ
Live reads...?
I can fold here
AK,AQ and worse definitely in there.
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10-24-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
JJ AJ AA TT AK AQ 33 fd in range
Looks like JJ or spades
Think you can discount AK and AQ
Live reads...?
I can fold here
I don´t a have a lot of experience playing live events, but i´ve played some small stakes also, and seen so many punters and bad plays/weird shoves like this one, i just don´t think he´s ever doing this w/ top set or AJ, maybe 33, but we cannot discount AK , AQ or even QJ and if he´s loose he can have hands like 54 or some **** (OP also mentioned that V overvalues TP )

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 10-24-2016 at 03:59 PM. Reason: even in 1k+ mtt´s tbh #lol#livedonkaments
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10-24-2016 , 08:47 PM
i think it's a great spot to shove with JJ, KQ (sry, forgot to mention KQ in range above and it's very possible) and other sets. the second spade brings multis into V's repped range and this makes it a great spot to overbet jam for value i.e. AJ+. (hint: i do it all the time and it's hugely profitable against capable Heros who want to range old guys). also, the pot probably just looks like a load of chips to V who might think SPR is closer to 1 than 2. i wouldn't exclude any premium hands from V range at this point.

so we have AJ, KQ, JJ, AA, 33 in range for V and all have you crushed
but there are some AK AQ KK QQ fd in range

i think this is the groan-fold spot we find in most tournaments - unless you have a reasonable read that V is uncomfortable in which case you might groan-call.

P.S. V is probably thinking more about equity denial than value
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10-25-2016 , 05:04 PM
Didn't get alot of feed back. Was looking for thoughts on pf, flop and turn action.
I call his all in...he covers
He has KJo for a pair of J's and a gut shot.
he's sick when he sees my A10 for 2 pair
says good hand, trying to get you to fold your A.
River(296.5K)Q
V hits his nut straight and sends me to rail.
Your thoughts on the call?
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10-26-2016 , 12:49 PM
I'm with oldsilver here.
The fact that villain actually tried to get you to fold your ace is very ambitious. Usually, ace-high flops are very good spots to get loads of value because most people actually don't fold their paired ace or particularly aces up.

On the flop, check/call is standard. Donk-betting is fine if you want to induce something, but if villain cbets a lot (which most people do), it doesn't make sense. Do not raise!
Turn, I can see a check/raise, but prefer a check/call (normal sized bets...) with the intention of check/calling again on the river. The check/raise gets value from too narrow of a range.

Once villain bombs turn, I prefer to protect my big stack, especially since, like oldsilver points out, it is a tactic used by some to get value. A read is a big plus here and I can totally see my play be dependant on the read! You had one (according to your description), went with it and were right, so we'll never really know (as we shouldn't be results-oriented), but it seems like it was a good call (again, in a vacuum, I fold in this particular spot).
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10-27-2016 , 11:21 AM
Thanks guys. I'm a long time cash grinder, trying my hand in some tourneys. From what I've read and I asked a few tourney players about this spot, alot said it was a fold. Tbh it surprised me a little. But I can see now why it would be a clear fold.
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10-27-2016 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poyo
Thanks guys. I'm a long time cash grinder, trying my hand in some tourneys. From what I've read and I asked a few tourney players about this spot, alot said it was a fold. Tbh it surprised me a little. But I can see now why it would be a clear fold.
How can be a fold when V shows up w/ KJ here?
Pls don´t be results oriented.
I´m pretty sure you wouldn´t create this thread if V doesn´t get there.
Sorry if i sound rude or anything (cuz i´m not), but in low BI (even in 1k´s+ that i played some) i saw some crazy **** /punters, that i wouldn´t fold here
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10-27-2016 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
How can be a fold when V shows up w/ KJ here?
Pls don´t be results oriented.
I´m pretty sure you wouldn´t create this thread if V doesn´t get there.
Sorry if i sound rude or anything (cuz i´m not), but in low BI (even in 1k´s+ that i played some) i saw some crazy **** /punters, that i wouldn´t fold here
I'm not sure OP was saying that because of the actual hand
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10-27-2016 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
How can be a fold when V shows up w/ KJ here?
Pls don´t be results oriented.
I´m pretty sure you wouldn´t create this thread if V doesn´t get there.
Sorry if i sound rude or anything (cuz i´m not), but in low BI (even in 1k´s+ that i played some) i saw some crazy **** /punters, that i wouldn´t fold here
Lost me. 1st you say how can this be a fold?
Then you go on to say you've seen people not fold in this spot. Am I reading it correctly?
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10-27-2016 , 06:40 PM
This is one of those spots where talking to your opponent is so important. There are some interesting posts about kassoufs (disgraceful) game in the poker tells section about what the different responses mean when you speak to a player.
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10-27-2016 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poyo
Lost me. 1st you say how can this be a fold?
Then you go on to say you've seen people not fold in this spot. Am I reading it correctly?
Look @ my first post.
And yeah, DON´T FOLD, it´s what i´m basically saying the whole time.
Sorry if i´ve got mistunderstood, i´m not an english native

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 10-27-2016 at 07:50 PM. Reason: i´m a Romanian living in Spain for the past 9 years, bare w/ me :)
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10-27-2016 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
Look @ my first post.
And yeah, DON´T FOLD, it´s what i´m basically saying the whole time.
Sorry if i´ve got mistunderstood, i´m not an english native
No worries.
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10-28-2016 , 04:22 AM
Ask villain if you should gamble with the nuts and whether or not he is drawing to the absolute coconuts ldo

On a serious note, gross spot, really villain dependent, usually call tho. Esp given description that he overvalues one pair hands etc. Ul river
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