Get it in pre with a decent edge? or post with a huge edge? - MTT Poker Strategy

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Get it in pre with a decent edge? or post with a huge edge?

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09-17-2009 , 11:21 PM

Greg Angelo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 358

Say you're pretty deepstacked in a mtt and you get 4b pre and you have kk. You're pretty sure you're gonna get called if you push. Is there any advantage to calling the 4b and betting hard on a non-ace flop over just getting it in pre? Dumb results oriented thinking, but I busted out today kk vs ak just before the money, a on river. If I bet flop and turn hard he folds and I don't bust out.

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09-17-2009 , 11:26 PM

areaman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,213

www.pokerstove.com

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09-17-2009 , 11:28 PM

dustybottoms7

centurion

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Angelo

If I bet flop and turn hard he folds and I don't bust out.

True, but you're not making nearly as much on average as you would the 70% or so of the time that he doesn't win the all-in situation. I'm sure someone can do the math better than me, but you definitely would rather get all in at 70% than just scoop a small pot.

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09-17-2009 , 11:28 PM

Jiggymike

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Angelo

Lol at wanting him to fold when is calls are making you tons of $$$

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09-17-2009 , 11:33 PM

anthonyjf23

journeyman

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 292

There's never anything wrong with getting all the money in as a better than 2-1 favorite,, My thinking, is if I call the 4th raise, he has AK and the A or K don't flop, he's probably not going to give you any more money after you bet the flop because he's probably putting you on a pretty big hand here, so in essence, you're costing yourself money the 67-70% of the time you are good here...

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09-17-2009 , 11:36 PM

ohcrocsle

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 612

BBV.

You want all the money in when you're a favorite. KK v AK pre-flop isn't a "decent" edge. It's a great edge and if you can get all the money in there you're doing great. You don't want him to fold when you're ahead by so much.

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09-17-2009 , 11:52 PM

theend4079

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 509

can someone please explain to me why we dont want to be all in pre with KK?

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09-17-2009 , 11:56 PM

Ch3wi3

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyjf23

This is why you get it in pre. You want the weaker hands like AK,QQ,JJ and sometimes AQ to get the money in pre when you are the huge faourite. If you just call and something funky flops like 3 clubs you may not get the rest of their chips.

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09-18-2009 , 12:08 AM

Greg Angelo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 358

Yeah I understand all that, but if we are already sitting on a deep stack is it ever advantageous to lose a little ev by choosing a lower risk line? For example, if I have quadruple the average chip stack and can use that to my advantage by stealing a lot while people try to squeak into the money, could it be argued that that position might be more advantageous than going all in preflop against the other huge stack, even if we are a favorite?

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09-18-2009 , 12:13 AM

#10

Ch3wi3

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 242

imo no, AA and KK are the 2 hands that you absolutely want to play a big pot pre with. I knwo people will play them conservatively near the bubble "just in case" but thats too passive for me. You will generally be a massive favourite with them so get it in pre hopefully they come along and even if you are deepstacked you are then odd on to win a major pot anmd if near the bubble be in awesome shape to take it down.

I guess its the "do I ensure a cash" vs "trying to win" approach.

Obviously AK or QQ is a different storty I think call here and seeing a flop is a much better approach

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