FT live £200 MTT - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy No Limit Tournaments

FT live £200 MTT

Post Reply Subscribe

...

12-11-2023 , 07:15 AM

Pokerpops

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 180

Seven left
Payouts (roughly)
£12k
£9k
£6k
£4k
£3k
£2k
£1.35

Chip leader has c75BB
Hero 30BB
Villain 12BB
Other stacks range around 10BB+/- 2

Hero is utg with KdQd and raises to a small chip over 2BB. This raise size has been effective throughout the FT and gets three folds to villain. He is competent and has a decent live record.
He jams for 12BB
Folds back to me.

???

Quote

12-11-2023 , 09:16 AM

Mr Rick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,076

Personally I would fold here. There are too many AXs type hands that have almost a 60% edge. Also AK/AQ would have close to 70% advantage. And hands like AJo are not great for us.

In this kind of situation I prefer to be the person shoving which I would do with KQs if the CL was already out of the hand.

Quote

12-11-2023 , 03:40 PM

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,685

I agree with Mr. Rick as I would rather have first in fold equity.

On the other hand, depending how small the stacks are and my opinion of the player, I may take be willing to take a 60/40 to knock someone out for this price when closing out the action. With the bb, bb ante(?) And small blind, you are getting close to, but short of, the right price.

Quote

12-12-2023 , 02:06 AM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

If villain is competent I'd just fold, he's probably aware both of the ICM implications of getting it in before the other short stacks, and he's aware you're raising UTG. If this was like a button/SB situation I'd probably call with these stacks even at the final table. But his shoving range should be tight here.

Quote

12-13-2023 , 01:44 AM

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,685

I think another consideration is that you appear to be in second place with most of the stacks being around 10b bs. I don't like the idea of giving up 12k, drifting back down under 20bbs.

Seems like one of those final tables where there should be fireworks between the small stacks and hopefully the cl throwing his weight around w 6x the average stack would result in some quick eliminations.

Quote

12-13-2023 , 03:40 AM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

Yeah I wasn't that explicit but that's what I was implying with "even with these stacks." I don't want to give up that lead either, but if I think the shoving range is wide enough that I have strong enough equity vs. it or even dominate a lot of it, I still have to take the spot. I don't think that's going to be the case here; we're flipping a decent amount of the time but that's the best-case scenario-- given the description of villain I doubt he's even shoving KJ here.

Quote

12-13-2023 , 04:49 AM

Pokerpops

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 180

Thanks all.
Frustratingly I knew you were right even having made the call (and lost).

More frustratingly villain’s fist pump and vocal celebration when he won the hand added to my knowing that I should have folded led to another error which was effectively fatal. On another day, without the tilt factor, I am confident in my ability to rebuild my stack in this spot.

We live and learn

Quote

12-14-2023 , 10:50 PM

Jkpoker10

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,983

I think 12bb is close. I think this is a call with suited KQ and fold with KQo. I’m never folding to a 10bb shove when I open due to math and what a former coach said unless insane icm dynamic.

Idk if villian is jamming 77/88 I think KQsuited is a mandatory call which I think 12bb is jamming.

Even hands like JQ suited, K-10 and KJ suited are ripping. I think this is a call. High variance no doubt but yes I think we take it

Quote

12-15-2023 , 12:42 AM

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkpoker10

I think 12bb is close. I think this is a call with suited KQ and fold with KQo. I’m never folding to a 10bb shove when I open due to math and what a former coach said unless insane icm dynamic.

It's a final table with 7 left where 3-7 are all short and close to each other. That pretty well qualifies for an "insane ICM dynamic."

Quote

12-15-2023 , 05:25 AM

#10

Pokerpops

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by nath

It's a final table with 7 left where 3-7 are all short and close to each other. That pretty well qualifies for an "insane ICM dynamic."

Indeed it does.

I was ok with the risk of losing the hand. I’d still have a better than average stack and would back myself in this field where calling ranges are generally over tight.
Faced with two all ins in front of me in the very next hand and a pair of nines in the BB I threw myself under the bus. A much bigger error than the KQ call IMO.

Quote

12-15-2023 , 05:37 PM

#11

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerpops

Indeed it does.

Given the dynamic, I wouldn't be surprised if his range was AJs+ AQo+ 99+. Maybe even tighter.

Quote

12-16-2023 , 12:50 AM

#12

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,685

It's interesting that we know most all in hands late in the tournament when you have 10-20bbs are coin flips or 60/40s and we spend all our energy on the hands we play when sometimes we really should be concerned about not playing hands because of the final table dynamics and icm.

Quote

12-16-2023 , 07:54 AM

#13

Pokerpops

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by nath

Given the dynamic, I wouldn't be surprised if his range was AJs+ AQo+ 99+. Maybe even tighter.

I tend to agree having given the hand a fair amount of thought.

Quote

12-16-2023 , 06:02 PM

#14

nath

the second coming of the second coming

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68,694

It's not just the ICM but the positions that affect that. If he's a solid player, he's both aware of the ICM implications of the situation and aware that you're raising UTG/7, and in this scenario you're probably never doing that light-- certainly with a tighter range than you would have without the payout considerations. He knows all that and he's still shoving.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...