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Final Table Hand - Put it in? Final Table Hand - Put it in?

06-15-2008 , 09:33 PM
Hello All,

This is a hand that was taken from a final table appearance. I raised in early position with AQo and got reraised from the SB, the chip leader. My read was that he wasnt getting out of line, but rather playing pretty solid poker. I ~15BB to start the hand and my question is do you just put it in here after being reraised, AQ is pretty big six handed. Or do you just lay it down and try to move a few more spots.

I have been reading these forums and noticed that if you raise with ~14BB-21BB and get reraised you should not fold to a reraise. Whats the reasoning behind that? I understand you should be more selective when your stack is around that area. What if facing a really tight player, then the answer is more obvious.

I'd love to hear what everyone says?

Full Tilt Poker $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1000/t2000 Blinds + t250 - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BTN: t11428
SB: t92509
BB: t56714
UTG: t48838
MP: t30322
Hero (CO): t30189

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with Q A
2 folds, Hero raises to t5000, 1 fold, SB raises to t18500, 1 fold
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-15-2008 , 10:40 PM
put it in imo..you have odds to call + you're likely ahead of his range
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-15-2008 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcOsNiPeR
put it in imo..you have odds to call + you're likely ahead of his range
wha? I know its six handed, but if the guy has been playing straigtforward then you're really not doing well at all.

Jarid


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924,644,160 games 0.005 secs 184,928,832,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.397% 24.06% 10.33% 222508740 95540226.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 65.603% 55.27% 10.33% 511054968 95540226.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


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Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-15-2008 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JARID
wha? I know its six handed, but if the guy has been playing straigtforward then you're really not doing well at all.

Jarid


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924,644,160 games 0.005 secs 184,928,832,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.397% 24.06% 10.33% 222508740 95540226.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 65.603% 55.27% 10.33% 511054968 95540226.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


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and its 13k to call to win 26k ?

oh yeah, his range is probably 66+ and AJo+ and KQs fwiw
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-15-2008 , 11:29 PM
What is your image at the table? Have you been stealing or raising alot?
What are the ranges you put the villian on?
My guess is you are likely up against pocket pairs, AX.
You are only a dog against AA, AK, KK, QQ
and dominating against A2 to AJ, KQ
and flip against JJ TT 99 88 77

What hands will you call to a raise? only AA KK QQ AK? Those hands doesn't come along often enough for you to win with.

What are the images of the other players at the table? If you fold, will you be able to steal enough blinds (which includes the chip lead) or take advantage of other players to keep you afloat?

imo, shove and hope for a double up.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-15-2008 , 11:35 PM
What is the payout structure? If he is a good CL, he should be playing back pretty wide and putting the pressure on. I think this should be a reshove
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcOsNiPeR
and its 13k to call to win 26k ?

oh yeah, his range is probably 66+ and AJo+ and KQs fwiw
I had my rebutal all typed out but then saw that hero is CO. In the op he said he was early so I thought he was utg which makes a difference imo even six handed.

That being said you do widen his range and should probably get it in here.

PsYcho, you do realize though that you're getting 2-1 to call the raise, not to show it down? That makes a big difference when you're evaluating your equity in the hand.

Jarid
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JARID
wha? I know its six handed, but if the guy has been playing straigtforward then you're really not doing well at all.

Jarid


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

924,644,160 games 0.005 secs 184,928,832,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.397% 24.06% 10.33% 222508740 95540226.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 65.603% 55.27% 10.33% 511054968 95540226.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


---
Getting 2-1 it is profitable to call even against this range. No way I am folding.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coz
Getting 2-1 it is profitable to call even against this range. No way I am folding.
calling only gets you to the flop...
see my other post though. I thought op was utg, since he is co you have to widen the range.

Jarid
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 08:44 AM
Excuse me guys i mistyped my description i was in the CO of seat. I thought he could be reraising me here with an Ax or a pocket pair, possibly even KJ+. Since he was the chipleader and i raised from late position i thought AQ could be good given the fact that he could think i was on a steal attempt.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 03:10 PM
oh wow i thought the SB shoved all in.

4bet shove imo
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 09:41 PM
Totally depends on the player. Some people just 3-bet JJ-AA, AK only. I fold if he's this player or close. With no read at all, his bet is made with the intention of committing you, so I fold.

By the way this isn't said with the intention of moving up a few.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabadu; 06-16-2008 at 09:47 PM.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 11:16 PM
good "solid" poker at this spot is restealing alot. I only read the first post so if there's something I'm missing that someone else put in, then ignore this, but I shove here 100% of the time. Folding up for the money is completely nitty. The only way I ever fold is if he hardly ever resteals, and/or your image is a nit.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-16-2008 , 11:39 PM
Raise folding from the CO with AQ with 15 BBs is unthinkable. Never do that. Shove.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-17-2008 , 04:35 AM
Given that you're a relatively low stack, as opposed to being #2 vs #1, and that the SB is reraising your CO raise, ship the 15BB in easy.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-17-2008 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeanutFlush
Raise folding from the CO with AQ with 15 BBs is unthinkable. Never do that. Shove.
I think this is an overshove given the situation. You're 6 handed with 15 BB. To chip up, you'll want to be raising a lot of pots 2.4-2.5x ish. Winning your hands by shoving 15BB in every time isn't going to cut it, too much is at risk. Sure shoving makes it easier this hand, but what about future hands. QJdd, do you ship the 15BB in after another orbit?
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-17-2008 , 07:22 AM
fistpump shove all day or else you are not playing to win, you are just playing to last another spot or two.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote
06-17-2008 , 07:55 AM
I'm shoving this.
To me he's playing it well to get you out.
You're in front a huge amount of the time.
Final Table Hand - Put it in? Quote

      
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